Gennady Moskal: If BYuT gives though one voice for Lutsenko's removal, it will simply destroy itself(himself) as political force

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Creation of temporary commission of inquiry of BP concerning the investigative actions which are carried out in 2005 in the matter of then head of the Donetsk regional council of Boris Kolesnikov, ricochets first of all on the Minister of Internal Affairs Yury Lutsenko.

In 2005 - Lutsenko's m participated in a legal investigation of unauthorized assignment of shopping center "White Swan" by Kolesnikov - the largest for that time of department store of Ukraine. Kolesnikov stayed three months in a pre-trial detention center, business burst as a soap bubble, and the main witness - Boris Penchuk, came to be behind a lattice on charge practically under the same article, as Kolesnikov - extortion though at first to it incriminated blackmail and slander...

And Yury Lutsenko got the influential enemy - Boris Kolesnikov at whom, speak, very good memory and which forgives nothing just like that. That, actually, doesn't prevent it to tell, how exactly Lutsenko apologized before it for this history of three-year prescription in an office at the friend Kolesnikov Balogi... And that all didn't prevent Party of Regions - to create VSK "Lutsenko's name".

As far as in tomorrow Yury Lutsenko can be sure, "Editor-in-chief" spoke with "samooboronets" Gennady Moskal - the former deputy heads of SBU and the Ministry of Internal Affairs, the general of militia who always differed juiciness and frankness of statements...

"It is a shame to me that the Party of Regions carries out the order Bank! "


Gennady Gennadiyevich, in what need and the reason of creation of temporary commission of inquiry of BP concerning actions of the minister of the Ministry of Internal Affairs Yury Lutsenko in 2005 concerning Boris Kolesnikov on business of "A white swan"?


Well, tell - as it so? The State Office of Public Prosecutor investigated this case, and guilty there is Lutsenko! It is a shame to me that the Party of Regions carries out the order Bank! Though for that else to wait, if PR today on a podtantsovka at the Secretariat of the President and who in it is guilty? Obviously, it is party problems, instead of Lutsenko!.

The name of commission of inquiry tells about much - "VSK concerning investigation of circumstances of illegal detention on April 6, 2005 the Chief investigator of management of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, initiation of legal proceedings and detention of the head of Donetsk regional council Boris Kolesnikov". But it agrees Criminally - to the procedural code the investigator - the person independent, to it nobody has the right to instruct whom to detain! Kolesnikov's arrest was approved by court, the investigation was carried by the Prosecutor General's Office...

What does it have to do with militia if, as they say, the thunder of a pig killed? What does it have to do with Lutsenko? Lutsenko doesn't direct the investigator, and the investigator at investigation of criminal cases is guided Criminally - by the procedural code...

But after all the main witness on business - Boris Penchuk sentenced to 8 years for extortion, declared that Lutsenko forced it to give false evidences against Kolesnikov...


Well, it also ruined it! If he didn't tell this nonsense about Lutsenko because today it is authentically known who wised up it it to do, in any prison he never would sit!...

And who wised up it?


Well, wised up... And he thought that as - нибудь will get out...

Well so who?


Well, who... If I tell you who, tomorrow this person will tell that the Russian with us was and heard... It everything is accurately known and without me. If I there was, I would tell, but there were absolutely other people, and I wouldn't like them to substitute in this situation... Question that Penchuk in this situation to himself did much harm... But for such crimes as extortion, such terms don't give! It reminds me a situation when there was an explosion on a football field of FC "Shakhter" in Donetsk in 95 - m to year - then extradited from Greece the former police officer Sinenko who was responsible for stadium protection. It for that time was already completely paralyzed after a stroke, had disability of the first group, but the Donetsk court sentenced him to life imprisonment. The Supreme Court completely acquitted Sinenko... As, I think, business will end and with Penchuk - he will go to the Supreme Court, and everything will be scattered!.

Maybe it will be scattered, but all this time Lutsenko's name will be used in certain contexts. Here, for example, Boris Kolesnikov already told how Lutsenko apologized at it in an office of Balogi...


You know, I before anybody didn't apologize, I don't apologize and I am not going to apologize. And who before whom apologized... I consider that all these conversations which are now transferred to mass media, have to remain between those who conducted them: if they were conducted in an office at the President or the head of the Secretariat of the President, they shouldn't be submitted for general discussion...

But after all are taken out moreover and as!.


So from whom they proceed? From Kolesnikov! I read in one its interview that when it asked, whether the truth that Lutsenko before it apologized, he told: "Here nearby Victor Ivanovich (Baloga. - Edition), I transfer an emu a tube and let he it will confirm …" So it that, a market or public institution of the highest level - the Secretariat of the President?.

Whether all can - be collected 226 votes for Lutsenko's resignation? And whether it is obliged to Tymoshenko to dismiss the minister of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, in that case?


It is obliged - as well as Ogryzko. Voted, the resolution - all is handed over! All this is the basis for dismissal...

Votes can be collected under one condition - depending on a position of fraction of Communist party. KPU didn't vote for creation of this commission. If it takes further such consecutive position on all these dismantlings, 226 votes won't be collected. I can be confident in our NUNS fraction only for "National self-defense". The confidence of other already small political forces which broke up and which - who and simply represents itself(himself), after such vote isn't present. After such blow which to us in a back was struck by the colleagues who have passed with Lutsenko and the Maidan, and revolution, all this for us is very strange - both for me, and for our group "National Self-defense"...

And you as are sure of BYuT? Lutsenko after all already ousted the minister BYuT voices - when it was in Yanukovych's government...


Well, if BYuT gives though one voice for Lutsenko's removal, it will simply destroy itself(himself) as political force. Therefore I exclude it!

Well, why? 49 voices for Ogryzko's resignation at BYuT were though as though, the decision of fraction was not to vote for it and Yulia Timoshenko declared that very much regrets that so happened...


Well, gave...But on the other hand, all so shout today about Ogryzko and tear on itself shirts... But tell me, please, what such achievements the Ministry of Foreign Affairs has? Call though one! With Russia - full раздрай, Europe doesn't perceive us, NATO disowns from us, with the countries of Europe we didn't achieve a visa regime... All our illegal workers from Europe will send in millions according to the agreement signed the Ministry of Foreign Affairs on a readmission... Well, call to me at least one success on the international scene?...

"In the case of Zvarich everything will depend on political will of the Secretariat of the President"


And what success at the Ministry of Internal Affairs?


And those 30 thousand which sit today in imprisonment places, they there that, on parachutes went down? Who there tired out them? Who stopped orgy of racism which was in Ukraine? Today any more don't kill Blacks!. That is the Ministry of Internal Affairs works today!

Tell, what real force in power departments still works today in the state? And who in the act arrests taking bribes, and every day it show, - there five million, there one million, there hundred thousand if, on - yours, doesn't have at the Ministry of Internal Affairs of any achievements? And who opens thefts, stealings of cars - who does it? What, thieves became at us so conscious, what after theft they come in court cap in hand? Well, I'm sorry, dear...

But after all there was also an incident in the Crimea with the assistance of militiamen as a result of which the person became a cripple?


From a mistake anybody isn't insured today - from the minister driving and able, God forbid, to run over the pedestrian, to the simple citizen! The professional mistake was, is and will be! It everywhere!

Yes, such case in the Crimea was, and what, the minister didn't recognize it? What, the minister didn't apologize? Whether protected the subordinates in the Crimea? From professional mistakes at such large number of people and routine of shots as in the Ministry of Internal Affairs, anybody isn't insured! Here if to them applicants came and told that from them stole the daughter, and the militia went to bed and didn't react, I think, it would be the bigger evil!. And here wanted to make something, and it turned out incorrectly...

And what now to do to 230 thousand staff of law-enforcement bodies? All to leave? And why all this got such publicity? Because the minister - Lutsenko? And if it was Tsushko or Bilokin, maybe, mass media would have not such prejudiced relation?.

Why there was no such resonance when gas workers blew up the whole house with inhabitants in Dnepropetrovsk or Evpatoria and nobody sits under guards? You, journalists, about it are silent quietly and the word don't tell though there people were lost on negligence! And all are amnestied today! And anybody about it didn't lift shout!.

Unless it not a mistake - the driver, the gas worker!. And how many doctors at us killed people! And what, someone is imprisoned? And it that, not professional mistakes? About it it isn't accepted to write? It is necessary to write only about mistakes of law-enforcement bodies? ! Why from all professions took one and untwist its mistakes? And all other professions honest and respectable? Today nobody is insured from professional mistakes - and you, journalists, too! And I yet didn't see the edition which самоизвинилось before readers for a professional mistake of the journalist - apologize, as a rule, through court in Ukraine!.

Well, Yury Vitalyevich already several times called journalists engaged - on the 1+1 channel air. Thus I declared that the plots about a beating in prison they discredit his name. And unless the given facts were inveracious?


Dear, there is a freedom of speech, but journalists have no freedom of choice - independent mass media aren't present. Each edition has the owner dictating editorial policy, and to the journalist it is necessary or to earn money and to agree with it, or to pay off and go to look for independent editions which in Ukraine aren't present!. Here if you want to know my opinion... If the edition belongs to labor collective, and each journalist will have an equal share of actions, here then he will be able to tell and write everything that will want...

And give about achievements of guards - about detention of widely known judge Zvarich in his own house in Lviv in two months of its searches...


That it that, its militia looked for? Same SBU! The militia never assumed responsibility to look for Zvarich! And how it was possible to look for so long if it found when he slept at home?.

Here you speak only about professional mistakes of militia - so take this professional mistake of Security service whom all idolize! How this Zvarich could run away from hospital if he was in development? Where he hid when distributed interview on the left and to the right? And eventually it became clear that he slept peacefully to itself(himself) houses!

Well, well, and how you explain all this? Because say that high-ranking officials are interested in its destiny from the Secretariat of the President. In any case, were interested... And whether there can be to it, for example, a sudden heart attack in the camera or still something?


Yes anything at all doesn't happen to it! The drizzle drops out of a big cloud, unfortunately, in Ukraine or in general any drop very much... I think that in the matter of Zvarich everything will depend on political will of the Secretariat of the President... Well, their Zvarich's business was directed against Oliynyk (Pyotr Oliynyk, the Deputy head of the Secretariat of President, the representative of the President in parliament from December 1, 2008 to January 12, 2009. - Edition), instead of on cleaning of corrupt officials of judicial system. You me kill, if it not so!

Victor Ivanovich (Baloga. - The edition) very much doesn't love when to it appoint people, and especially if the person is a little bit cleverer, than he. It gives Durdintsu's command (Tibery Durdinets - the vice-chairman of SBU. - Edition) which where - that there found something in archives that Oliynyk was in an office when to Zvarich bribed... It untwisted, the objectives are achieved, and now it seems to me that Zvarich's destiny will depend on the Secretariat decision, - whether was the fact of dismissal of Oliynyk enough, or the command to ruin it up to the end will arrive. From it Zvarich's destiny, instead of will depend on his acts... You know, how many was affairs when there were all proofs, and the person was as a result pure, as God's Mater...

And Zvarich can be pure, how God's Mater?


Let's wait! I don't believe that he will receive so much, Penchuk how many received! Let's argue! Chernovetsky argues on Dom Perignon, and I too am ready! Because in Ukraine always so good beginning, and so bad end is already history showed...

How you explain coalition vote for Nalivaychenko's candidate on a SBU post of the head? What conditions to it were set - Khoroshkovsky's dismissal, Durdintsa, still something?


And how Nalivaychenko can dismiss Khoroshkovsky and Durdints if the President appoints and dismisses the head and deputy heads of SBU? I if it is honest, still shocked by this vote!. I here the day before yesterday flied from the Crimea and met Ivan Grigoryevich Kirilenko whom I very much respect. And I told it: "Ivan Grigoryevich though throw out me from the plane, but I don't understand, and nobody understands this course! " And he says that thought that if we will give a ride to Nalivaychenko, then the acting head of SBU appoint Khoroshkovsky. That is from two evils chose the smaller...

But Khoroshkovsky won't leave anywhere, Durdinets won't leave anywhere, Gerasimenko won't leave anywhere... Gerasimenko and Durdinets is people of Balogi, Khoroshkovsky - the person of the President... And where the guarantee, what the President of three more - four who are faithful or to Baloge, or personally the President, doesn't appoint Nalivaychenko in deputies? The number of deputies in the law "About SBU" after all isn't stipulated!.

"The new coalition can't be!. "


We pass to the following sign character of the Ukrainian policy - to Victor Ivanovich Baloge. On air "Intera" it declared that the coalition both wasn't, and isn't present therefore it is possible to appoint early parliamentary elections any minute...


Yes anybody never will go to it! Theoretically it still could be till October, 2008. But if now the IMF still does any attempts, Russia wants to give us the credit, or any European banks, became interested in such economic situation, in an abyss in which Ukraine came to be, to go for early elections is all the same that to commit suicide. And Victor Ivanovich wants, we will speak, to frighten someone from screens of TVs...

And how it is possible to frighten if all understand, what it won't be?


Well, all understand, but suddenly someone will be frightened and on a lap on a carpet path will spread on Bank?

Or perhaps Victor Ivanovich simply wanted to be lit? Well, what he can tell about any achievements Bank? Well, there are no them...

And Khoroshkovsky too so frightened when said, what "Alpha" can quietly enter into Cabinet of Ministers, and in general - criminal case can be opened against someone?


I very much respect Valery Ivanovich, and I know him long ago, but he doesn't direct "Alpha". "Alpha" Nalivaychenko who was the first deputy head of SBU - the head of the anti-terrorist center directed. Without Nalivaychenko's command "Alpha" for any teams of deputy heads of the head of SBU not ре - and - ги - ру - ет! I tell it to you as the former deputy head of SBU!

In - the second, Valery Ivanovich simply went to that a press - conference as Nalivaychenko had to for everything that occurred in "Neftegaz", to answer. He simply wanted to support the colleague...

In - the third, Valery Ivanovich after all doesn't direct an investigation, Gerasimenko directs an investigation! Let's take chronology: on Gerasimenko's "Neftegaz" personally I gave materials to the head of department Valery Atamanenko, that read them and told - there anything isn't present! Well also began - or you will break, or leave! And it gave materials, wrote the application on dismissal and left! Well, so why nobody speaks about it? !

And then these materials gave to the chief of the second department Vitaly Vergelis, and it without remorse initiated proceedings! Why nobody speaks who everything twirled it in Security service? It was twirled by Gerasimenko and his deputy Vovk who came from Vinnytsia, and before was Skomarovsky's deputy (the chief of Customs service in 2005. - Edition)!

Would deal with cars across Vinnytsia, so they start understanding NAK "Neftegaze"! What was need to take "Alpha" with machine guns against unarmed people? "Neftegaz" not military formation, and anybody there couldn't show any resistance! And to put on thus masks is in general petty tyranny: masks put on at anti-terrorist actions and detention of especially dangerous criminals!

You perfectly know, how many time and what words on Bank told about Yulia Timoshenko - that she made high treason and so forth...


Well, high treason is a favourite word which sounds today with Bank. If to trust Bank, all of us are the state criminals! Not so voted, God forbid, any normal law - and criminals...

But me as to the legislator all the same who brought him - either Party of Regions, or communists, or BYuT! If it normal from the point of view of the right, I support him. But as soon as you will vote, at once ours hurrah - patriots from fraction shout: "What do you vote? Same Party of Regions! "

Well, why we divided this parliament into enemies of the nation? After all people chose all, all identical, isn't present there at us neither Paraguayans, nor Hondurans, or whom there... The most known joke in Ukraine: when our President congratulated Honduras on the state holiday, the Independence Day, addressed to them with words "Dear compatriots! ".

Well, why we do today it? Why we create enemies where they aren't present? Well, what high treason if the law goes to the benefit to Ukraine - or economy, or is right, or morals... Yes I don't look, what position of fraction, I look at an essence of this law! Well, in Party of Regions there are no clever people? And among communists?

Now came clever people much. Here Valery Bevz came - he was the chief of Regional Department of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, I was the chief of Regional Department of the Ministry of Internal Affairs. And at what here what he is a communist? It understands questions of militia subject, as I, and some questions, maybe, and better me. So why I can't support? But as soon as synchronously in any question you vote with Party of Regions or communists - that is instant at once: "High treason! "...

Now such conversations that there can be a new coalition as a part of Party of Regions and BYuT, probably, with the participation of part "our Ukraine" - that is "Self-defenses" went. "Self-defense" remains in such union?


Yes isn't present... The new coalition won't be... The new prime minister can be put forward, the new minister can be - everything can be...

The new prime minister in this coalition?


Well, and why can't? I speak: everything can be theoretically, but the new coalition can't be! Well in any way! Though make at the left though on the right - you won't make it! As one deputy from Party of Regions said that in a dreadful dream everything considers - considers, wakes up, and the coalition isn't present...

And why you so consider, what it is impossible? Explain...


Well, it is impossible! Because no one from "our Ukraine", except "ETs", any new coalition won't enter!

So "our Ukraine" also isn't necessary - there and so voices will suffice...


Well, BYuT won't go! Before elections it both for BYuT, and for Party of Regions - self-destruction...

But can after all happen so, what national presidential election won't be? Can?


Even theoretically it is impossible. In time, which remained to elections, the Constitution can't be changed.

Why?


Because look much at Constitution changes! At first it is necessary to give these changes at one session. Then to send them to the Constitutional court, and only after its conclusion a tax on the second session. Well, it is impossible! Time for changes to the Constitution isn't present, this time passed. It is necessary to forget and not to remember it at all. Let it will be in October, in December or on January 17 - elections will be under any weather conditions!

The only thing that when all refer to that elections have to be on January 17... Well, whom we will choose on the drunk head?

And on the sober head on December 27 we will choose nobody...


On December 27 - too not an exit. The Soviet Union was not the fool, all elections made in October and in March!

And in our Constitution everything is correctly written: 103-I article of the Constitution say that the term of office of the President makes five years. The president was elected under the old Constitution and under the old law. I was on committee on local government of mister Omelchenko - there me taught mind - reason because I suggested to hold elections on October 25. I told them: "Dear, look, to elections there were only a few months, and you even didn't change the law on elections! The law - that about presidential elections old, there is written: "the last Sunday of October of the fifth year of powers of the President of Ukraine"! Promotion was under the old law, vote was on old... The first vote was at the end of October 2004-го! Therefore date of elections has to be today a political compromise, instead of a postulate!

In a word, elections will take place. And wishing will be much. I think, candidates it will be registered not less than twenty.

I won't ask you, whom the greatest chances...


To elections chances still can change so that... Our people Ukrainian, unfortunately, didn't get used to elections. I already many spoke:when all start damning the President, the Verkhovna Rada, the government, that, people kind, they after all not came and held these positions - you brought all of them! And constantly you are mistaken, mistaken and mistaken! No, it is necessary to change the President and the Verkhovna Rada! And I speak: on the contrary, the population needs to be changed! If you also this time are mistaken on elections, it will be necessary to change the population, as in that joke: that Ukrainians in Canada, and Ukrainians remained in Ukraine. There is no other way out! Well can choose the people eighteen years all the time of those!

And where a guarantee, what we this time will choose those who is necessary to the people? I too can't give such guarantee. Because, I don't want to call a surname, but in the Western Ukraine I already see: as flu - has Hong Kong, Australian or Chinese strains - and here new "case of flu" mows the Western Ukraine!

The old leader disappointed, means already on him damnations: it both such, and syaky... I speak to them: "So you 98% for it voted, what you speak now? " And they to me: "Well, and who could know about it? "...

And now new "the flu strain" mows the Western Ukraine and what to do? This reflection of that level of legal and general culture which is in Ukraine. You won't change it to elections. Also remember my word, we again will be mistaken on elections, these are hundred percent!

Here in Uzhgorod there is such restaurant, Detsa at нотаря" is called ", and there is such political cemetery, with symbolical graves. And on one cross it is written: "They were mistaken on elections". And it seems to me that after the next presidential election all of us will lay down in that "grave"...

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