Exclusive interview of the head of SBU of Valentyn Nalyvaichenko to agency "Interfax Ukraine"

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Question:Valentin Aleksandrovich, allow to specify for a start some moments in a context of your report in parliament. Explain, please, motivation of submission of the draft of the decree by you to the president about dismissal from a position of your deputy Tiberiya Durdints.

Answer:I will consciously refrain from comments. The corresponding argument was submitted to Victor Andreevich. As the person respecting the president, I won't begin to make comments on the reasons while there is no decision and there is no signature on this decree.

In general rotation in intelligence services is a normal process. Especially, in the service management. It not the first and not the last deputy who certainly is subject to rotation.

Question:And what you will tell on the offer the head of committee of Rada of Anatoly Gritsenko's national safety to dismiss Khoroshkovsky?

Answer:It is the politized question in essence, therefore any answer - politicization. The exclusive prerogative of the president - to appoint deputies.

Question:And on the remark of the speaker concerning excessive politicization of service?

Answer:As for words of the head of the Verkhovna Rada - I am ready to agree with him and it is defined by the law - the principle of extra party membership has to be observed. But there is very painful position which and I felt on myself - when you aren't supported by political force in parliament! The first person in SBU is appointed by parliament - there is a contradiction. Probably, it was meant by mister Litvin, and in that case I agree with Vladimir Mikhaylovich. The real European intelligence service has to submit to one person depending on a government form. If at us президентско - the parliamentary form of government then to the president have to submit and is under parliamentary control. If the parliamentary model of board - that intelligence service submits to the relevant parliamentary committee. But then don't wait for the depoliticized service! This charge is rather not to SBU, and to those who changed the law and wrote out such mechanism.Then it was necessary to go all the way and to clean parliamentary control completely, including over personnel appointment, and to leave everything in competence of the president.

Question:The SBU promises to finish service reforming until the end of 2009. That the intelligence service after reforming will represent. Briefly in the main directions - that will exchange. Whether there is enough financing for achievement of this purpose.

Answer:Any reforming assumes serious financing. Reforming it is very serious. The budget for training and transfer of experts to the priority directions - protection of statehood, fight against terrorism, cybercrime is necessary. We took away the people from higher education institutions, customs, the secretariat of the president, they need to be retrained, given a worthy salary and to put to fight against real calls and threats. It also is a dekagebization. For example, there is a Minister of Education Vakarchuk. Great Ukrainian minister. It does many reforms. Why the SBU to watch it or his people? We have to protect them, and not the reverse.

Question:From what else state structures the staff of SBU "under cover" will be withdrawn?

Answer:Already, apparently, didn't remain such structures. And among journalists, thank God, such also wasn't.

The draft of the decree is already submitted to the president about new structure of service, and as a whole reforming for this year has to be complete in the subsequent directions. In - the first, we lose the excess managements not necessary or who duplicate functions of other authorities. At the same time, the basic direction - counterintelligence and protection of statehood - amplifies, and new forces join it. The second: we prepare for serious participation in the international operations against a piracy. And it assumes the special equipment, special trainings - the whole complex of issues which we together with the Ministry of Foreign Affairs now resolve. The third direction is a civil public control. We present the second edition "White book" and we promise that such book will leave annually." The white book" will be distributed free of charge to all who is interested in control over service. In it all - from our cooperation with NATO before the international conferences which the SBU held and will carry out. This direction extremely important.

The fourth direction of reforming - shots.To the president the offer is already made, and the head of state essentially supported him, - to reduce several times quantity of general positions in SBU. It is time. In - the second - to reduce several times senior positions. And not only in central office, but also in regions. The third offer which the president accurately supported is a redistribution of salaries and a wages fund in favor of young employees in order that those who directly is engaged in operational work, felt increase in a salary even within small financing which the SBU has this year. It will occur due to reduction of expenses by general positions, at the expense of a ban on expense accounts, representative cars.

I want to tell still that soon we with Yury Ekhanurov report on the president on serious reforms of military counterintelligence. The SBU goes to army? No! For army will be responsible, (including, for military property, economic and other activity) the civil Minister of Defence, and civil Nalivaychenko will work only in the sphere of military espionage from a permission and in coordination with the Minister of Defence. It is a civilized way of the relations.

Question:Whether you see prospect of a pre-judicial and judicial legal investigation on "Naftogaz", considering strong politicization and judgments on a ban of carrying out investigative actions.

Answer:Nobody disturbs now to the state, first of all, to the Prosecutor General's Office and Security service, People's Deputies to work with NAK Naftogaz Ukrainy is transparent and is lawful.

The position of SBU is that is a question гражданско - legal relations. Those documents which are - well. What else aren't present, will be provided to the Prosecutor General's Office for the legal analysis. It is necessary to make legal decisions, lawful decisions and prepares for upholding of national interests in the Stockholm arbitration. Unambiguously, the SBU will promote protection of interests of Ukraine, regardless of what it will be arbitration - national or foreign, regardless of what it will be the claim. It is necessary to understand that the main thing - our status of the reliable transitor from Russia to EU countries.

Misunderstanding of it can lead to negative consequences as on the international scene, and within the country. I know foreign languages, and that I saw, read to SBU in the foreign press are serious remarks.Moreover, the president it is very critical I estimated service activity in respect of power influence and use of fighters of division "Alpha". Frankly speaking, I wouldn't like to hear such critical remarks to our employees. And therefore there has to be more professional work, more law-abiding work, in interaction with the Prosecutor General's Office, with tax administration - all have to take the state position.

Question:Now the State Office of Public Prosecutor supervises investigation of this criminal case?


Question:Valery Khoroshkovsky let know about possibility of accountability within case on "Naftogaz" the prime minister - the minister of Ukraine Yulia Timoshenko. In your opinion, whether will aggravate this political opposition and whether it will be regarded as public relations - a course of election presidential campaign and SBU intervention in policy?

Answer:In order that actions of SBU didn't estimate politically, we have to be out of policy and protect interests of the state. If there is no criminal case concerning any citizen of Ukraine including the one who holds a high position - can't be declared it. Neither mister Konovalyuk can't such speak, nor Nalivaychenko, to someone to another.

If isn't present in SBU of criminal case concerning Tymoshenko - why to say lies that? All before the law are equal.

Here the other day there was at me in an office an investigator of the State Office of Public Prosecutor. But I didn't expose "Alpha", didn't throw out it from premises of SBU and didn't do on it any PR actions. Before the law all are equal, and I not an exception. It is necessary to be responsible for all the actions and acts according to the legislation. If you break - to you the prosecutor will come, you have to give evidences. If against you filed a lawsuit - you will go to court. I perfectly understand that this such - 24 claims to me and to SBU for the last half a year. But I didn't lie and we have documents therefore we will defend the position and to respect the decision of the Ukrainian court.

Question:Clear, please, a situation with the wiretap of the deputy general prosecutor of Ukraine Renat Kuzmin

Answer:Repeatedly at SBU board meetings I pointed to inadmissibility of an illegal institution of expeditious counterprospecting affairs in any division of service.I demanded - and it was in writing recorded that stopped "To" opening in a central board any another cases except what are defined by the legislation on activity of this central board.

During check the Prosecutor General's Office established that in a central board "To" there was a counterprospecting business. And within this business control of mister Kuzmin "hid", in my opinion. It that revolted me! I say that while I in SBU, such won't be because the Prosecutor General's Office is a supervising instance. If there is information on possible illegal actions of employees of Geprokuratura which is subject to check, that is the procedure for test of this information established by the law and legal reaction.

There are specially appointed prosecutors, special courts in which we receive the corresponding sanction. It is that situation which preceded events. And already everything goes within a legal investigation on an occasion of possible listening of mister Kuzmin. As far as I understand and that prosecutors during my poll told me, this criminal case.

Question:One of the main areas of work of SBU is protection of statehood and territorial integrity. As within diplomatic relations with the Russian Federation not to allow inspired from the outside of separatism manifestations.

Answer:I will try to tell simply that such separatism in my understanding as citizen of Ukraine. It means that our houses, kitchen gardens, our property - all this is object of illegal interest of the foreign separatist. He wants to change borders of our territory, to give other power and what will occur further? The earth of my and your parents, a private property, the simple Ukrainian first of all, will appear in hands of foreign owners - here that such separatism threat in a simple statement.

Therefore no compromises here can be! As for a position in relation to neighboring countries - including to the Russian Federation - it has to be open, partner, friendly. It means that we by no means don't afford unfriendly activity in relation to the neighbors. But we as and rigidly answer according to our legislation any encroachments - hypothetical, political or, God forbid, more serious! All these actions find and will find our resolute repulse!

Question:Whether the deputy of the State Duma Konstantin Zatulin should execute, in your opinion, a judgment of Moscow about collecting from you 300 thousand rubles as moral damage?

Answer:Both the citizen of Russia, and the citizen of Ukraine is protected by own national legislation. I have two higher educations - I will be not cheated. I remember provisions of the so-called Minsk convention of the CIS legal aid in civil and criminal cases. Lawful decisions of SBU concerning any foreigner including it, were confirmed with the Ukrainian judicial instances to the Supreme Court inclusive. To call into question lawful decisions of any official in Ukraine at all respect for court of other state means, at least, violation of a number of provisions of this convention and, as at most, precedent creation regarding non-recognition of jurisdiction of the state as that.

Question:Non-performance of this judgment can entail legal consequences in case of your arrival to the Russian Federation?

Answer:This precedent is created not at us in the territory, and in the territory of the city of Moscow. Illegal decisions, illegal, at all respect for court of other state is a problem of other state. It is not my responsibility.

Everything that carries out SBU and I at a position of the head of SBU, is confirmed with the Ukrainian vessels and the Ukrainian legislation. Therefore the legislation of other state can't be applied to my competence, to competence of SBU. It is an Alpha and Omega of international law. And the Russian side - the party of all international treaties, and they accurately recognize it.

Therefore it now not my problem is a problem of the Ministry of Justice of the Russian Federation and the relevant judicial instance - to find out among themselves, from where there was this decision and, the most important that they with it will do now. I am the citizen of Ukraine, I have a passport of the citizen of Ukraine. And person I law-abiding.

Question:Throughout a subject give an assessment from the point of view of national security to recent statements of the ambassador of Russia in Ukraine Victor Chernomyrdin about a situation in the country as a whole and the characteristic of her leaders.

Answer:About it there was a full and exhaustive reaction of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Ukraine. It is more than that, the president of Ukraine stated a position on these questions. The SBU absolutely supports a position the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and that fact that the ambassador of the foreign state has to adhere to provisions of the Vienna convention accurately.

In other words, each ambassador represents the president and the state. And the ambassador of Ukraine Nalivaychenko when worked in Minsk, always remembered that it represents Victor Andreevich Yushchenko and Ukraine. Therefore you do any statements not as the individual - you sound a position of the state and the president.

You want to express on - household and to use a freedom of speech - hand over a diplomatic passport, an accreditation card which you received in the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Ukraine. You not therefore the ambassador that you wanted, arrived and became. No! We validly recognized you, you came to our president, handed over him credentials. And now compare household or below household level of the statement and the accrediting diploma which was accepted by our president.

Question:The SBU in such cases has the right to warn about not political correctness of statements. ?

It is competence the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, the Ministries of Justice. Our competence is a counteraction of subversive, prospecting activities in our territory, including from those who tries to act under diplomatic cover.

Question:Whether traces now SBU of foreigners who come or constantly live in Ukraine, whether it is observed them?

Answer:We have on it neither forces, nor means. We removed a visa regime with EU Member States, the USA, Japan, Switzerland. It also is декагэбизаиця. It is necessary to come once and for all to professional level that we and made in counterintelligence questions. The first and most important - we recognize all lists of the persons suspected of terrorist activity, both the UN, and NATO member states. With Russia we have a bilateral agreement in the sphere of control of those foreigners who can be involved in terrorism, extremist activity, distribution of weapons of mass destruction.

At the same time, there is a professional counterprospecting activity of SBU, including secret-service and technical methods when we reveal that there is an illegal interest or illegal activity which threatens national security of the state after the relation to military, nuclear, other strategic facilities. It at us on special control. Here we act only within the opportunities and powers.

Question:At the end of last year in SBU there was a critical situation regarding financing.Outflow of professionals from ranks of intelligence service …


Answer:I will make everything, from me depending that professionals remained in service. The youth, new generation should be lifted as much as possible on senior positions. Time came. People already learned for years of work of SBU in independent Ukraine to be sufficient experts - counterspies, fighters with terrorism.

More concrete answer - the situation with financing and, first of all, salaries for the end of last year was critical. Thanks to support of profile committee on questions of national security and defense in the end of the year we managed to overpersuade the government that us provided with a minimum level of financing for payments of salaries to employees. Now percent for 20 - 25 salaries are raised.

Question:That is, mass outflow of people with huge baggage of knowledge and skills any more won't be?

Answer:We hope that it, in any case, will suspend outflow of young people, professionals and patriots.

Simple comparison - the intelligence service of Russia spends for the maintenance of one counterspy twice more means, than Ukraine. Poland - in 5 times more. All other our neighbors - from 5 to 8 times more. EU Member States and NATO - at 20-25 times. To such level I am ready to suffer with my colleagues year - two, but in 5-8 would like to see at least next year.

Question:Recently you told that in regional managements any special mailboxes into which it is possible to throw letters with complaints to illegal actions of staff of SBU will be established. Already there are any results, tell in more detail about this innovation.

Answer:Certainly, already there are results - the recent decree of the president about replacement of the head of USBU in the Kirovograd area. The president very sharply reacts to it. Corruption in the ranks of SBU is the worst that can be, it is the greatest threat of national security. We have a division of internal security, it is capable to reveal illegal actions if not for 100%, for 101%.

I offer a hand to each Ukrainian businessman, first of all, to representatives of small and medium business - where you felt illegal manifestations from someone with the SBU certificate - counterfeit, real - don't hesitate. Such mailboxes will be established for this week, they will be sealed.And I will see all these statements personally! Moreover, the electronic box, its address already started working: letter@ssu.gov.ua. If it is inconvenient to you to write and inconveniently to come into premises of SBU, you don't want that you saw - we too respect it.

We ask to use such boxes. Help me, to my colleagues in Kiev to eradicate this phenomenon. We transfer to spirit extortion, neither corruption, nor all that can threaten the simple citizen of Ukraine.

You can check me on honesty - if you transfer the statement, and I won't react - means, criticize me ruthlessly.

I will explain how to do it in practice. In each regional management of SBU there is a reception of citizens in which mailboxes with a mark will be established: "complaints to actions of staff of SBU personally to the chairman of SB of Ukraine". Time in three - one person specially appointed by me unseals four days, puts letters in an envelope, and courier communication these addresses go to me to a reception. I open them and further already I make the decision. And I as at the head of SBU of the power have enough to be defined as how to do. Yes, would ask to subscribe, leave the coordinates for feedback, differently it will be the anonymous letter.


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