After charges of illegal obtaining the Ukrainian nationality the People's Deputy David Zhvaniya opened political and financial secrets of our Ukraine. Why the ideology WELL - NANOSECOND was defined not by party members, and group of the American political strategists?
In interview to Contracts the sponsor of National self-defense David Zhvaniya told that:
1) there can be the coalition many deputies
2) The Party of Regions and our Ukraine were advised by the same political strategists
3) on elections of the mayor of Kiev the president voted for Leonid Chernovetsky
4) preparation for orange revolution began in 2001
Initiation of legal proceedings against you and Yury Lutsenko, whether your sharp statements to the president and his Secretariat mean the beginning of a rupture of the union of National self-defense with our Ukraine?
- No. Declaring to that Victor Yushchenko wasn't poisoned, I pursued other aims. I wanted that the president ceased to be afraid of this history with which him blackmail, and started behaving as the person responsible for the post, instead of as the hetman or the father of the people.
Today only the Party of Regions praises the president though earlier all their speakers shouted that he constantly is mistaken and in general the liar and wasn't poisoned. Where those people who went abroad behind packs of proofs of poisoning? Now in the Secretariat constantly there are regionals and tirelessly go on to the president, what it good. And he trusts - he already became a regional. Everything with what Yushchenko went on elections in 2004 - m, in the past. But thus he looks for opportunities to escape and at any cost to reserve a chair of the president. In this situation it is power usurpation. But we not for this purpose achieved the power for Yushchenko. He thinks that we were torn to the power, and we simply wanted to participate in it.
We don't need absolutely not to break away from our Ukraine because we have no claims to our partners and friends in fraction. We realize that they don't conduct independent policy and in many respects depend on the decisions made out of party, but we protect the communications with WELL for the sake of coalition preservation. New parliamentary elections now aren't necessary to the country.If to go on elections with the existing Constitution and laws, will change nothing: it will be simple in parliament other coalition and other government will be at war with the president. The format of the coalition won't matter. It is necessary to hold at the same time early elections and the president, and parliament, to change the Constitution and to define future power verticals - presidential and parliamentary. But to simultaneous elections it will be difficult to adopt the adequate Constitution. The president already was going to submit the new draft constitution for a referendum with changes in the first part. In principle, it is known, from where the wind blows: before regionals were going to change the first part of the Basic Law only to provide to Russian the status state and to legalize the federal device of Ukraine. But it would be the reason for impeachment of the president: the head of state, the guarantor Konstitutsii - also can't initiate her change.
Unless an exit of two deputies of the coalition, Igor Rybakov from BYuT and Jurij Booth from WELL - The NANOSECOND, doesn't mean the actual disintegration of the coalition?
- - the fact the coalition still exists. Formally, that it was considered broken up, it has to leave the whole fraction. But now it is possible to make any decision. The speaker Arseniy Yatsenyuk sits eight months one in parliament and doesn't want to see anybody on the right, to the left of itself: neither vice-speakers can't choose, nor parliament don't want to unblock. And to find people who can be convinced that the shaky coalition all the same will collapse and it is better to receive now dividends, not so difficult. Here hooked Quarrystone representing our party - it for the first time in parliament, I had the business, I lived in Russia - weak places for certain are. If to work in the same way, it is possible to find many the doubting. It was the first blow to the coalition - such blows can be a little as WELL consists of the Uniform center and other groups which listen to teams from Bank. Besides legality of the coalition will challenge in the Constitutional Court, and there pushed socially close to the Secretariat of the president of subjects.
Why against leaders of National self-defense criminal cases are brought right now?
- Us finally decided to consider as enemies after we dissuaded the president to submit the new draft constitution for a referendum. It was necessary as - us to humiliate that: my passport called invalid, Lutsenko remembered charge of use of office planes for personal reasons, affairs under other party members prepared.But all this was only the scenario final on reformatting at all the coalitions, and societies as a whole. Before simply everything was suppressed, problems were solved in the block, without litter carrying out from a log hut.
As soon as we signed the contract on the introduction in the block with WELL, at once understood that a condition of occurrence into parliament - creation of the wide coalition with Party of Regions. While we didn't become the member of the block, us in every possible way humoured, promised the moon. Declared that we go uniform team, agreed with our statements for definition of the uniform principles and an optimum configuration of the majority in new parliament. We insisted on that the election platform suited BYuT as our future ally, and WELL with it agreed.
Therefore you agreed to become Victor Balogi's deputy in the campaign headquarters WELL - NANOSECOND? The head of the Secretariat of the president behaved during this period differently?
- Балога was simply the lassie, yet I didn't present us with a fait accompli that the list is created and ways for retreat aren't present. From the first days of creation of the campaign headquarters we were disoriented. All field propaganda was carried out by us, Baloga was appointed the head of a staff, his deputies - I, Vasyunik and Bezsmertny. But the ideology was defined not by us, and the group of the American political strategists which working also with Party of Regions and has established to us that messages which we had to sound. The staff defined prime bills which needed to be accepted after a victory on elections. Them included in the coalition agreement.
Who invited political strategists and who paid their services?
- The settlement account of a staff WELL - NANOSECOND was closed on Baloge therefore we precisely don't know, funds from the party of our Ukraine from where came. But guessed that it is money from fund belonging to Rinat Akhmetov which paid services of Americans to regionals. Here then we understood that in parallel build the campaign aimed at association WELL - NANOSECOND with the Ave. Then to us began to say that we will have to enter the wide coalition.
WELL and NANOSECONDS constantly discussed - National self-defense was categorically against. The messages thought up by Americans badly were carried out by leaders of the block, the first five of the list, all speakers because didn't coincide with our ideology and our images. It terribly angered a staff therefore to all representatives of the first five of the list forbade to participate in election campaign. Actually parliamentary elections became presidential campaign.We had to tighten a rating of the president to a rating of the joint parties, but it turned out so that it lowered us to level of the rating. After elections we waited for the deepening of parliamentarism promised by the president, though didn't understand why then it was necessary to state strengthening of a direct presidential vertical in the coalition agreement. Therefore signing of the coalition agreement was difficult, and, it is necessary to give due BYuT, they signed all our offers. In the night after elections we signed the agreement on the coalition. It caused an indignation storm in the Secretariat - us called upstarts, said that we had no appropriate authority though two months conducted before negotiations on the coalition agreement, government formation. Vote for the coalition went hardly, only on a call with Bank six deputies WELL which now in the Uniform center, reluctantly raised hands. But as other purposes we weren't told, we counted that we will manage to break a situation in own favor. Thought that it everything only opinion of the head of the joint venture, instead of the president. But from the moment of creation of the coalition war began. To all deputies the order was allowed to criticize constantly actions of the government, the ministers appointed on a quota WELL - NANOSECOND, demanded to block constantly all undertakings of Cabinet of Ministers and to achieve vote for the bills which have been written down in the agreement. It was murder not only the governments, but also suicide. We were hostages of a situation - was worse, than in 2006 - m when we dangled unclear fraction in BP and our representatives were in the government, but formally we were considered as opposition.
The Kiev re-elections when Leonid Chernovetsky's interests directly lobbied in the Secretariat became a last straw for us. At this stage of Baloga I destroyed fraction of our Ukraine in Kiyevsoveta - us tore apart on a lot of the parts, everyone went with the political force. Rukhovtsa were with Vitaly Klitschko, Yury Kostenko went itself, Vladislav Kaskiv was going to go with the Time. Then conversation about which Lutsenko told took place. Балога with irony I told that we prepared if we pass to unite with Chernovetsky. When we refused, war, and not only against Tymoshenko, but also against own political force began. We knew that affairs will get to the election day in prosecutor's office against Lutsenko. We were ready already and in Kiyevsovet to pass elections, but changed the mind as it would be followed by coalition disorder in parliament.Deputies then already on one called, offered money and chairs or threatened to bring against them criminal cases. Prosecutor's office absolutely manual - the general prosecutor Alexander Medvedko always was a compromise figure between the president and regionals.
Why the Secretariat of the president supported Leonid Chernovetsky? It would be more logical to support our Ukraine to provide electoral support of Kiev at future presidential election.
- Elections in Kiyevsovet became serious business - the project of Balogi. For the last years WELL fraction criticized for that some deputies made advances to Chernovetsky. When fraction of them cleared, the Secretariat of the president started making advances to it, and the guarantor declared that on elections voted not for the political force, and for the acting mayor. I told that in the last day I changed the point of view.
Unless so-called democrats couldn't unite without participation of the Secretariat of the president?
- In the Secretariat there was a center of decisions, and without its participation nobody dared to act independently.
Why the Secretariat of the president was headed by Victor Baloga? In 2005 Victor Yushchenko was surrounded absolutely by other people.
- In old team there was no person who would began to do that was ready to do Baloga. The presidential environment of that time wasn't ready to sign that signed Baloga, and to carry out his role at the president. Though I even itself any more don't understand, who main in this tandem. At first the president claimed that Baloga simply plumber, then - that is the best manager.
Consequences of offense
You christened the son of the president, were his close friend. When your relations deteriorated?
- When he started acting not as Victor Andreevich Yushchenko, and as God the president given to the country. Probably, its mentality simply didn't sustain glory, probably, it was not ready to the power. For example, why was to carry out this epic with Famine-Genocide, the Cossacks, unitary enterprise and other projects, embroiling the nation? Not only that it not at the right time - these issues the president shouldn't deal in principle. And I personally grudged a downtime. After all I, Bezsmertny, Stetskiv and Filenko began to train people for holding a mass protest action - future orange revolution - in 2001. Organized summer camp where learned peacefully and without weapon to protest, bought tents, sleeping bags, transport, established scenes.We gave an impetus to that Maidan which brought Yushchenko to power. It missed the chance to become the historic figure, and from - for it Ukraine lost chance to be the accepted Europe.
Why you accused of illegal obtaining nationality?
- Probably, didn't find other occasion to accuse me of something. My publicity, my statements therefore decided wasn't pleasant that such charge will cause me any loss - here any illegal immigrant who has illegally received the passport of Ukraine, still the rights stands up for. All documents are sent to court, but that to me incriminate, lawyers can't understand even. Business was based on any statements from the Internet. In fact, if the court doesn't obey to will of money and the Secretariat of the president, he has to refuse initiation of proceedings simply.
After initiation of proceedings you declared that Yushchenko wasn't poisoned and case of its poisoning was forged by four persons. Who these people?
- This management of a staff of our Ukraine of that time - the head and three deputies. I won't call a surname, I think that soon they call themselves. It was necessary to hide the problem which has arisen on an etiology of Yushchenko which could break pre-election trips and public meetings. Business came too far - many scandalous statements which strongly damaged to Ukraine were made. The first - that poisoned Yushchenko with the dioxine which strains were only in four countries. The states were called, and everything, except Russia, the strains sent to check. Three countries diplomatically kept silent not to lift scandal, but about that which starts such misinformation, there was a specific opinion. The same with Russia - anybody to anybody didn't declare war, but the relations worsened - such charges are very serious. I don't know how it was thought over, but actions were system.
Why you just now decided to tell about it?
- And I don't want to be the participant of arrangement. The history with poisoning went too far. On speculation in this question many became prosecutors, ministers, others broke in parliament. For example, the present head of MOZ Vasily Knyazevich - the gynecologist by training, appears, knows how to bring dioxine out of an organism of the president. Where he studied it?
You called on interrogation after declared, what poisoning wasn't?
- No, for the present didn't call. But me there is nothing to ask. I already told everything that remembered that scandalous dinner at dacha ex-the vice-chairman of SBU Satsyuk.Giving already all rummaged and almost didn't raze to the ground - new any more you won't find anything.
Career of the politician
Since 2006 - the People's Deputy (WELL - HC)
2005 - the minister of emergency situations
2002 - the People's Deputy (our Ukraine)
2001 - the chairman of the board of JSC Brinkford
1998 - the president of the enterprise "Brinkford Kons. (Ukraine) Limited"
1991 - the manager, then the director of economy and finance of JSC Torgovy dom Firm
1988 - the student of Tbilisi state university
1986 - service in frontier troops of the USSR
1967 - I was born in Tbilisi (Georgia)