When the People's Deputy Vasily Kiselyov expelled from presidium of political council of the Party of Regions, one of leaders of PR Boris Kolesnikov in a direct air promised that "the group won't notice loss of the fighter" …
Left with an accuracy on the contrary: the former head of the PR Crimean organization didn't lay down arms and continued goes on about PR merging in the Crimea with criminal structures. "I don't know than that here it is more - offense or real fight against corruption. But it is necessary to know Vasily Alekseevich: he is a person stubborn and awakes to fight up to the end", - certified "Regional committee" one of key functionaries of party.
Kiselyov claims that is offensive for him not so much for itself, how many per lot. Thus by the prime cause of falling of a rating of PR on the peninsula нардеп calls Victor Yanukovych. On one of favourites of presidential race of the critic Kiselyov also beats most painfully. The former colleague of "Leader" tried to convince readers of interview to "Regional committee" that Victor Fedorovich needs to blame for the Crimean troubles of PR himself.
- Vasily Alekseevich, your ways officially dispersed from Party of Regions on September 18. How the politician, you already found yourselves in a present situation?
- I consider that, being the People's Deputy of Ukraine, having the opinion and the right it is opinion to state, I remained a politician. Another thing is that I yet don't belong to any political force …
- … and it strongly complicates the solution of many questions …
- This the first. But the main thing consists here in what: I don't doubt that before elections in local councils me again will admit to the party, and I will head party movement in the Crimea. Because the Party of Regions is more than one million party members. And I am unpleasantly surprised to that many dear people don't understand that Yanukovych is not party. It, maybe, the party leader - and that the leader change if it conducts not there, doesn't carry out program provisions, etc. That is why I also achieved clarity: or Yanukovych carries out program provisions - or to him not a place in party.
- Something is a lot of idealism in your words. Many years, and "Leader" are told about Yanukovych's change on a post of the leader of PR and nowadays there.
- Well, I not just like that told it to you. I count a situation, and today it develops negatively. Many program purposes and tasks aren't carried out, and it causes an irreparable loss of party. And if Yanukovych loses presidential election (and the probability of it is very great), that, I am afraid that the party will collapse. And my many former colleagues refuse to understand it. They stupidly go on one way - yet won't rest against a wall. And a wall of this will be on May 30, 2010 when elections in local councils will take place. And if at presidential election Yanukovych suffers defeat, the party to these local elections will come not simply in the shabby view, and with the very strongly undermined authority. The leader won't be because lost don't love and them punish.
That is why I also got irritated. I don't want that from - for one lost all party lost. You remember my message when I told that that Yanukovych doesn't hear the next colleagues …
- … Whom from them?
- Me. And many others, by the way … And so, while Yanukovych doesn't hear them, I in this party have nothing to do. I so told and is now ready to repeat. Therefore we will wait, it isn't over yet.
- But after all not on you one the Party of Regions …kept
- No, certainly.
- Well, and then to what else colleagues Yanukovych doesn't listen? For example, the same Yury Boyko called by you in interview (along with criticism to "Leader") one of worthy applicants for a party post of the head, immediately answered with sharpness in your address. You weren't jarred on by this statement? After all on the eve of you it was possible to see warmly communicating in a lobby of the Verkhovna Rada.
- No, it was absolutely predicted reaction. Because, well who will trample against Yanukovych? It only such as I, could such make. On age I am slightly more senior than Yanukovych, and by experience same. I only the prime minister - the minister of Ukraine wasn't.
- By the way about age. A year ago you were 60 years old. Yanukovych publicly handed over to you nominal hours. And then its attitude towards you seemed quite benevolent …
- Well, and how you think? Nine years there was a collaboration. And all know that I never wagged, always said that I think. For what in a result also suffered.But all trouble that compete … at all Yanukovych, and Vasily Dzharty and his environment, on the one hand, - and the speaker of the Crimean parliament Anatoly Gritsenko - with another. They already clash. And to them already bakes that on May 30, elections in local councils. Both that, and another would like to drive the Crimea - too it is a titbit. Both that, and another want to give the team. The same Gritsenko dreams to keep in power for 10 years because now he is 50 years old, and he assumes to work with great dispatch, plundering the Crimea, two more five-years periods.
Certainly, at a present stage they are doomed to agree, without bringing the matter to the open conflict. But I am convinced that, as approaching elections, the situation will be heated and even to leave from - under Yanukovych's control.
- You fell upon "Leader" from - that that covers Alexander Melnik called by you by the bandit and even once personally inserted it into electoral lists at parliamentary elections of the Crimea. Why, on - to yours, it made it? "On the advice of friends"? From - for corporate (considering Victor Fedorovich's past) solidarity? Or in order that is banal to raise money by means of the enterprising partner?
- I think, these are simply friendly relations. And you correctly told: this desire and opportunity to raise certain financial funds through Melnik.
- For party or for itself personally?
- I don't know it. At least, the leaders of ARC say that all that they plunder, they bring to Kiev. And to whom carry, they don't speak …
- Since your exception of party you though in any form communicated with Yanukovych?
- And something from his name to you transferred?
- Yes, once there was an invitation to conversation, where - that about a half moon ago.
I refused to go.
- And the meeting purpose to you formulated?
- Probably, me wanted to calm in any way in respect of that I acted less. Because a task one - Yanukovych's victory on elections. And I the performances force down to it a rating. And that in the Crimea Yanukovych on these elections will lose much, is the fact. Because people see whom it protects and with whom it.
- You spoke with Yanukovych about Melnik?
- Not less than three times. I tried to convince him to separate from this person.
- And than "Leader" answered?
- Promises: in total after elections, now not time … I to it: on the contrary, right now time! But it left from the direct answer: pier, well, you understand, for what reason it will be discharged there? I'm saying: yes because it undermines authority, forces down a rating, including yours.
- How Yanukovych reacted to it?
- I told: well, it is my problems …
- Victor Fedorovich explained - internally or by phone - the reasons of your exception of PR and party presidium as a whole?
- No, certainly.
- You were absent at that meeting of presidium when you excluded. But to you unofficially though explained, on what bases such decision was made?
- I will tell you that none of my colleagues can't answer on fraction to me on a direct question: for what you expelled me from party?
- Nevertheless, all who was present at that meeting, obediently kept silent?
- Certainly. Here it and is terrible.
- Though someone acted in your protection?
- They act unofficially. Yes there and the quorum wasn't on making decision on an exception of party. Because for this purpose under the charter two thirds of voices of members of presidium are necessary, and they weren't. And as I was the member of presidium, they had to approve this decision also on political council. And considering that I didn't begin to wait for the political council decision, and I submitted the application for an exit …
- … And why all - didn't begin to wait? After all there could be a collision …
- And it already arose. When to me to political council offered: pier, we are ready to return you back to the Crimea - only don't lift a turmoil.
- And who offered it to you?
- Well, for my part it is incorrectly to tell it. We will tell so, the people holding in party very serious position.
- Vasily Alekseevich, why in the same fraction of Party of Regions people with authority (and not so shy) don't find forces something to object Yanukovych? It from - for fear? Or out of respect?
- It - is pure for mercantile reasons. As elections not far off …
- So after all the same was and long before elections.
- Yes, but it after all forms electoral lists. That says it all. There only units can tell it something "across".
- And who exactly?
- Well, the first who can express the opinion, is Vladimir Rybak. This is the lawful founder of party. Anybody is more.
- They say that Vasily Hara argued from time to time.
- No, Hara can argue, and Rybak can put into place. It is a big difference. The fisherman is a figure, which Yanukovych as me, from a board won't brush away.
- From Vasily Dzharta in your address any threats arrived?
- From Dzharta? No, from Dzharta such threats aren't present. Though he is very serious person …
No, Melnik threatens me only. Also it is serious threat because the long loop tries to keep step with it. If to trust the Russian, there are very serious crimes. And I hope that he will be responsible for them. And that Melnik doesn't file a lawsuit from - for absolutely concrete charges from the Russian (and there the facts, names, corpses appear), speaks about much.
- There is such impression that the Russian for you now - fatherly. Here and on meeting of procedural committee on Wednesday you arrived, being chilled, only to protect it by consideration of a question of g combination - number the Russian of the deputy status and a high post in the Crimean central board of the Ministry of Internal Affairs …
- And how differently? ! I can't allow punishment of the person who sincerely and quite effectively struggles today with bandits in the Crimea! They what aim pursue? After all today from a depuy corps there are part-time workers both in BYuT, and in Blok of Litvin, and in Party of Regions.And on them so seriously the question isn't brought up! The Russian bakes them most of all! It all - combines navsy two months, and some - already the second cadence, but only on the Russian on committee brought up a question!
I want to tell here about what. While we now with you speak, in the Crimea proceeds mass дерибан property. For example, according to my information, in Simferopol try to issue on the quiet the state acts on commissioning of illegally constructed objects. And I now gave command to prepare the address to the Russian and the prosecutor of the Crimea Quickly with the requirement to stop these frauds.
- Who specifically carries out these frauds?
- It is a question of two objects. The first - on Gogol St., 4 behind which there is one of deputies of the Supreme Council of the Crimea. The second - on Kazanskaya St., 1/and behind which there is one of deputies of the Supreme Council of Ukraine from the Crimea, the member of fraction of Party of Regions.
- нардепа you can call a surname?
- What for? It it is very easy to calculate(by data "Regional committee", this person - the People's Deputy Boris Deych).
- Yesterday you didn't manage to make the report of temporary commission of inquiry headed by you on Simferopol. Whether it was succeeded to make the commissions much?
- It is a lot of. Members of VSK very honestly worked, and the commission opened the most serious violations. For example: tens objects self-willedally are under construction on the pleasant place and while build, neither prosecutor's office, nor the city authorities, neither militia, nor SBU with GASK(state architecturally - the construction commission - "Regional committee")in an emphasis see nothing. People built something and then go to executive committee and present it with a fait accompli: well, here, we started building, it is necessary to give the earth. And you know that since 2007 the earth under the law is allocated only on a competitive basis.
So they at first create precedent of construction of property on a site, and then, without having the conclusion of BTI(Bureau of technical inventory - "Regional committee"), start "working" with the Executive Committee of the City Soviet of People's Deputies. And that prepares documents, submits a question for session and allocates this or that site in long-term rent.
And there is a lot of such objects. That me killed: all attempts and ГАСКа, and the Crimean central board of militia come across a wall represented by prosecutor's office. Which doesn't do anything in this plan.Moreover, in the report I intend to show two extensive documents …
- About what will there be a speech in the report of parliamentary temporary commission of inquiry run by you on abuses in Simferopol?
- Materials by the commission it is collected much. One document is a list of tens criminal cases which the Crimean central board of militia sent to prosecutor's office to coordinate the brought criminal cases with a request on the concrete facts and against specific officials of the Simferopol City Council for the most serious violations. The prosecutor's office stupidly does nothing.
The second pack - copies of documents from the Crimean CREWE which, having carried out an inspection, opened the wild facts. Violations on tens of millions are recorded. To CREWE transferred these materials to prosecutor's office - any reaction. There the mutual responsibility turns out. Therefore members of the commission (and at all according to my offer) write right at the beginning that in the Crimea merging of criminal business with the Crimean power, militiamen and vessels takes today place.
After all what courts guessed? Here, the firm self-willedally occupies a site, starts being under construction there, goes to GASK for the construction license. That, naturally, refuses. So they after that go to court - and the court forces GASK to issue the construction license!. And when Starstroi firm with which I struggled while it wasn't deprived by licenses …
- … Who possesses firm?
- To the miller. And when there was a question of that for numerous serious violations from outside "Starstroi" to deprive of it the license, the executive director of firm went to court. And the court passes the decision: to forbid the license commission even to consider a question of deprivation of firm of the license!
It we already "arrived"! It speaks about as far as our courts are bought and on sale!
- You tried to talk about all these cases with loyal Party of Regions the Public prosecutor Medvedko or his deputies?
- I tried, certainly. And not once. They play for time. Anybody does nothing. On Wednesday from a parliamentary tribune I already addressed concerning not decision already Medvedko of a question of initiation of legal proceedings against Melnik which crippled the person. And before it is I broke a jaw to the person.
And neither I, nor the Russian we can't punch this wall. And Medvedko doesn't react, criminal cases doesn't bring.Why? Because they understand that Melnik then will have an absolute criminal record. Let it will be conditional, with a delay of execution of a sentence - but the criminal record will be. And in this case Melnik doesn't get in нардепы. And it has a fixed idea: to evade responsibility for those crimes which he committed, in the Verkhovna Rada. And if he is a deputy, already nobody will get it. Here at them now and a task: how to save Melnik from a criminal record.
Or here such situation: in due time the Minister of Defence signed the list of the land plots of military camps which can be transferred to the order of local governments …
- … Who then was Minister of Defence?
- Alexander Kuzmuk. But it just here at anything because documents on transfer of the earth have to be transferred to the signature to the minister, and they repeatedly changed since then. Are guilty the Woman (Gennady Babenko - the mayor of Simferopol. -"Regional committee") and its team which stupidly and impudently took away sites and transferred them to "the people", signed with them contracts: for example that, here, here, on Aviatsionnaya St., 15 the garden on 160 places will be constructed. And that, according to the law, 8% of housing will be transferred to the general city turn on housing.
But the city power "forgets" about it soon. The prosecutor's office under contracts doesn't control a situation. Passes three years - and any apartment to the city don't transfer, about kindergarten forgot. Judicial game begins. More shortly, today to the city didn't transfer any meter of the area. The garden - too isn't present. And those firms which don't fulfill from year to year contractual obligations, constantly receive the land plots! Who will dare to tell me, what it - not corruption in pure form? ! They simply agreed: here to you a site, you to us will copy so many apartments, and we instead of anything won't demand from you.
Therefore today (conversation with g - the number Kiselyov took place last Thursday. -"Regional committee") the vice-president of VSK Yaroslav Kendzyor made the offer on addressing to the Crimean prosecutor's office that that, in turn, appealed to court for protection of interests of the state represented by the staying idle Simferopol City Council. Sense of the address the such: to block accounts of those firms which don't satisfy a condition of contracts. It will be very effective measure.
- … But you speak about a conciliatory position of prosecutor's office.What is the "effective" measure, what practical sense is made by such address?
- Surely it makes sense. It is clear that in practice they will sabotage, but to do nothing - easiest. And here if such process begins, and accounts at least one firm will block (and they are obliged to make it under the law), precedent will be created.
Or here one more example. Yaroslav Kendzyor met representatives of Majlis крымско - the Tatar people, and it became clear that крымско - to the Tatar community "Aloes" was granted permission for collecting materials on creation of the construction project of a mosque on the specified ground four years ago. They collected all necessary signatures, coordination, ordered and made the project, paid for it money. Came behind the earth - and to them speak: excuse, we already gave this earth to another.
And it is far not an isolated case. It can be come to a bad end. Becomes ripe the interfaith and interethnic conflict. Because this mafia won't stop before anything. For them money is everything. Today in the Crimea as the Russian claims, everything the criminal authority, the leader of an organized criminal group "Salem" Alexander Iosifovich Melnik …governs
- Something at you everything rests against Melnik …
- And what to do if so it and is? He directs today the speaker of the Crimean parliament Gritsenko, it places the people at a position, solves on each land plot.
- Victor Yanukovych and Vasily Dzharty as the chief curator of the Crimea "from the center", as - that react to all actions of members of the same party given by you?
- I think that Yanukovych understood a lot of things already today. And Dzharta when faced directly Gritsenko, with Melnik, - I understood who is such. But today not that time that it was possible to put an end or someone "to clean".
- It is from outside noticeable that you about Dzharta are expressed more quietly, than earlier …
- How it "is quieter"? How I can speak more quietly about Dzharta if he made against me not one meanness, and a little? ! Also I didn't apologize!
- And what it for "meanness"?
- Dzharta accuses me that I set a task to discredit Party of Regions.Yes where was Dzharta when I in this party already was? ! Nine years I "plowed" on party - and it where was at that time? I would tell where it was!
And such there were three cases.
- But you talked about it to Yanukovych. How it reacted?
- He answered: Vasily Alekseevich, agrees, he before you will apologize. But Yanukovych - not the man of his word, here in what business.
- And after all it is a basis of its image: The leader always keeps the word …
- Here before you an example that it not so. Yanukovych - not the man of his word.
- What word pledged to you Yanukovych didn't keep?
- Well, in - the first, I very painfully belong when humiliate my honor and advantage. I won't go to court, but I consider that if the person in relation to the colleague allowed tactlessness - is obliged to apologize. If you are a party leader. Yanukovych promised that Dzharta will apologize, but the promise didn't keep.
Other example is when it at presidium (of which, by the way, wasn't) signed the decision on my exception. Here the chronology of events is important. On Monday, September 14 on political council of the PR Crimean organization of the colleague demanded from me to withdraw the statement for transition to the central staff and to return to management of a Communist Party organization. I told them: "Brothers, I am a man of his word while I won't talk over with Yanukovych, I won't begin to do anything". Right there I called back to Rybak (Vladimir Rybak - the deputy leader of the Ave. -"Regional committee") also I reported that, here, the political council took place, from me demand that - that. I told so - that". The fisherman answers: "You correctly made everything. Call the Leader".
Yanukovych was where - that on departure. I contacted its service, those, probably, called back to it, he told: "We meet on Friday". And suddenly on Tuesday there is a decision of presidium on my exception of party, and it is signed by Yanukovych …
That is he didn't call, didn't ask. At least обматюкал: well, what you there do? And I would explain a situation.
But also here I decided to wait for Friday. I hoped that I will be called by Yanukovych. I was exhausted questions by journalists, I "was frozen": I don't know, it is provocation. And there is in air Boris Kolesnikov in the evening and speaks: "I for 100% confirm that such decision is. The group won't notice loss of the fighter".
I again - gritted teeth and waited for Friday. I was sure that till Friday Yanukovych will find me.At least in order that in morally - the ethical plan to explain why everything so occurred. But it didn't happen. And when to 12 o'clock in the afternoon on Friday I didn't wait for a call, decided not to go to Kiev. I collected a press - conference, I put the party membership card on a table and I told: while Yanukovych leads party, I in this party have nothing to do.
And right there my colleagues turned all chronology! Start me getting: say, I criticize the leader!
- After Friday you didn't try to contact Yanukovych and to discuss everything?
- And that I will try? I am not a boy! He saw that signed! It already then when I brought to Rybak the statement and the party membership card, to Yanukovych on it reported. And in two weeks, in a sessional hall of the Verkhovna Rada, it sends "messenger" that I approached to it.
- Who was "messenger"?
- I don't want to speak about it, why I will set up colleagues? I told this person: "Sorry, but about what to me now to talk to it? ". To humiliate me to such an extent …
Certainly, the wound is put to me the serious. Because 9 years I lived that built party, protected its ideological "canons". And suddenly here so …
- We correctly understand, what your conflict to Yanukovych and his environment is connected only with the Crimea?
- Exclusively. They had a desire to remove me from influence on drawing up lists on elections in the Supreme Council of the Crimea and local councils. The operated person, instead of such obstinate, as I which would think of image of the party, instead of of purses of those who would like to use party for personal enrichment was necessary to them there.
And in this context I can't but tell about a situation with "Mezhigoryem". I have accurate opinion that if that Yanukovych issued on himself giving in "Mezhigorye" is confirmed, it has day no right to be in party. Around the world it for it for the second day would drive from party, without speaking about a leader post. What you have the right public property to billion hryvnias to take away to yourself? It that the such? ! What authority? If you are sure that you will win elections - find in Kiev other housing. To you that, is no place to live? You have documents? Sidi, wait for the end of elections. Because if will win against Tymoshenko - she all the same at you is "Mezhigorye" will take away! And then you with them should agree tomorrow.So you will be - to hand over party in order that with it to agree that it didn't touch your giving? !
Therefore I personally as the person direct and basic, I consider that am undermining authority of party. And after that to go with an innocent look and to tell that they do the benefit for people … They for themselves do the benefit, instead of for people!
- Vasily Alekseevich, but after all the subject "Mezhigorya" emerged at all yesterday - and is exact before your exile from Party of Regions. What did you don't state it to Yanukovych in a face - publicly, on political council, or in a personal meeting?
- Well, I will tell so: I now speak about it not because left party. Simply anybody there, on fraction, won't hear you. And now nobody will hear. There at you look, how at the madman: well, how it so, it rose against Yanukovych? There consider that there is one great, and all the others - the six. And I the six never at anybody wasn't - and I won't be.