Yury Lutsenko: "Life works well if not to be protected! "

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Having visited edition "Today", the Interior Minister of Ukraine told journalists about the future shocks in the country, about deficiency of dollars for the bribes, new penalties for prostitutes and moonshiners, and also about that to what church of patriarchy goes

The first question concerns the sensational information allegedly sounded by you on board of internal affairs and concerning the future problems - on salaries of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, on a situation of military operations, etc. What from this truth?

- Everything who tries to make comments recently on board, would recommend to address to me directly, instead of to use information various not always conscientious the Internet - editions. Really, on board there was the serious conversation initiated first vice-the prime minister, which as the Doctor of Economics, stated the vision of a world economic crisis. I consider its conclusions correct. We deal with very serious calls of global scale and strongly we depend not so much on internal factors, how many on the external. Words about war really sounded. It was said that threats of economic character which appeared before the country, can be compared to threats which stand at the martial law.

For this reason the situation in the country is the person. This word also is key, we, of course, don't speak about the military or state of emergency. The word it completely meets a situation in the country which demands certainly a specific mode of work. And militias - first of all.

The budget of the Ministry of Internal Affairs really doesn't provide money for fuel, for equipment and arms, for form updating, for construction of housing and repair of buildings. Nevertheless, we are faced by very difficult tasks on preservation, on the one hand, about, with another, the rights of citizens for a protest, for demonstrations, and in the conditions of very small support from the state, the salary expressed only in payment. About such particular treatment also I there was a speech.

- These words - "particular treatments", install disturbing, well, perhaps, slightly less disturbing, than the words "martial law", thoughts.What will we see on streets? Revolts, revolution, crime revelry?

- Let speak frankly. We deal with huge falling of industrial production, with the huge unemployment comparable to the middle of 90-x years. That is if today falling of our production is estimated more than for 30%, we are in crisis deeper, than America of times of Roosevelt. All understand that mass unemployment leads to that the sea of people remain without means of support. And the world practice testifies that 5 lost workplaces conduct to one criminogenic manifestation. Objectively, regardless of the one who the minister who the prime minister, the country will face increase in criminal cases. We felt this problem in October. At first in Kiev, then in Mariupol, then in Odessa, Kharkov, Lviv and other large cities we saw increase at 5-7% of street crime and burglaries. Therefore in December - January entered a specific mode of service when 30% more staff took to the streets. Has to tell that for January we see noticeable increase in quantity of robberies and robberies. I don't intend to hide it, for me the statistics is only a reason for decision-making. Today I can declare with confidence that the militia can keep a situation under control. 90-x we won't allow a lawlessness of the middle.

At the same time we consider that people, certainly, will protect the rights. We see that already followed both actions of motorists, and actions of employees of the large enterprises which have appeared in a difficult financial situation. We are ready to provide the rights of people for demonstrations, meetings and other protests but only when these protests don't break the law. Concrete example. Motorists want to block roads - we will remind them that for it there is a criminal liability. For a start we will warn, then we will impose an administrative penalty, in case of long-term blocking of streets criminal liability will take effect.

The similar situation was last Friday in Kherson - an indicative thing for the Ukrainian policy. At night from Nikolaev with assistance of intelligence services combines of the Kherson plant which were there at an exhibition - sale were delivered. And at 2 o'clock in the morning attempts were made by them to block all streets of Kherson. I so understand, prepared for one of evening shows on the Ukrainian TV channels.The militia stopped transport, explained that it is large-size vehicles and on their drive specialpermissions are necessary. Then the governor interfered with business and the order obliged to pass two of these combines. We passed them, protest action took place. People declared the problems at plant, but the city wasn't blocked. Here in such mode we also plan to work. People have the right for protection of the rights, but have no rights for actions which will lead to infringement of the rights of other citizens. Such is my position.

And one more problem connected with crisis - difficult financial position of law-enforcement bodies. Though your newspaper wrote that Tymoshenko's present budget means a rate on a police mode, it not absolutely the truth. After all still the salary of the officer of militia even if under the new budget it will lift for 15%, at least on a third will lag behind a salary of the officer of the Ministry of Defence. I am the supporter of that all people in shoulder straps received equally: in SBU, UGOU, Ministry of Internal Affairs and other structures. Also I can't understand why the major who 30 years only prepare for war, receives 30% more, than that major who on this war goes every day. And the present budget gives the chance to us to increase some a salary in the Ministry of Internal Affairs. In fact, the increase in salaries will be only gesture of moral support of the militia assuming all negative of crisis.

- So all - is delays in salaries, interruption for which you allegedly called prepares on the closed board?

- You sounded a question which is asked often by the staff of the Secretariat of the president and remain disappointed with the answer. The salary completely (though in two calling) is paid for January, we will quietly pay February. In March the Ministry of Finance promises to pay and an extra charge. Today average salary 1800. In March it will be increase of hryvnias on 200.

- You said that we have a special situation. In this regard you how not only the Minister of Internal Affairs, but also the politician, whether you predict extraordinary actions from some branches of the power? For example, now speak about direct presidential board …much

- The direct presidential board won't be because militia support is for this purpose necessary. And considering that such board is illegal, the Ministry of Internal Affairs won't support it. Conditions of present shameful house war have to end with presidential election after which as I assume, early parliamentary elections are inevitable.And not to torment the country so long, it seems to me, it is worth looking at Leonid Kravchuk's example when it went for the early termination of the powers and elections of all levels. It would be useful for Ukraine.

- Whom do you see yourselves at the president Tymoshenko, the president Yanukovych, the president Yatsenyuk?

- One of my features - I don't prepare spare airfields. In September I had a series of serious and straight talks with the prime minister - as its plans, my plans will be made further. I understood that its leaving in opposition is Tymoshenko's huge chance to become the president. But I convinced Yulia Vladimirovna to remain the prime minister who tries to do everything to bring the country out of crisis. I support the prime minister in it. And for myself I decided that I don't participate in political wars and I will be the full-fledged minister of the Ministry of Internal Affairs. Therefore also the National Self-defense political project is frozen. As for your question … I will show life whom I will be, after all life works well if not to be protected!

- In due time you spoke about plan existence "300 Spartans" which was developed in a subsoil of the secretariat of the president and provided situation destabilization in the Crimea. Also hearings went that Yushchenko right after the Georgian - the Ossetian war gave the order to mine bays of the Black Sea fleet in the Crimea. What actually occurred and happens to the peninsula?

- There are two cases, connected with the Crimea. They caused alarm in me. The first occurred in the middle 2005-го when the opposition started thinking of return to the power. On one of meetings the phrase was heard: "Kolya, you are responsible for the Crimea, for result. Two Russians бахнете, you will write off for Tatars and elections are guaranteed". I was compelled to make some public statements that the such didn't occur.

- It not the joke was?

- It was staff meeting. Perhaps they have such jokes, don't know. But, fortunately, one of participants approached to me, as to the good acquaintance, the politician therefore I made a number of preventive actions. This plan became known, and is respectively impossible. Similarly occurred when in a subsoil of the Secretariat of the president the analytical piece of paper of "300 Spartans" about destabilization of a situation of the country for introduction of state of emergency was born. Made public and removed sharpness.

One more similar case which hasn't been connected with the Crimea, was in 2006.Activists of one of parties - candidates in winners of parliamentary race, started preparing pseudo-attempt at the leader. I too declared it that stopped the plan. You can consider it as my tactics. But it is necessary to speak about the Crimea seriously. Anybody didn't pay it never system attention. All meetings of the National Security and Defense Council, meeting of the different commissions had single character. The hostage of this not system policy are inhabitants of the Crimea. We want to show other approach. Declared cleaning of the Crimea of gangsterism - and regularly we bring the matters into court. Declared fight with land deribany and the whole year was revealed by resonant crimes. Literally next week on the peninsula there will be an exit board on a subject: "A role of the Ministry of Internal Affairs in anti-terrorist system". Will pass doctrines, cooperation with demonstrators, and aggression counteraction will be fulfilled also. Besides, we will discuss a situation with extremist movements in the territory of the Crimea, and a different orientation. As well as among the Slavic population, and among Tatar, I even would tell - Muslim because we are disturbed by some disturbing signals from there.

- Our state is considered unitary, but ARC - a sign of the federal device. Earlier you spoke against transformation of Ukraine into federation, even started such word - федерасты. You changed the opinion or you consider, what federalization disorganizes Ukraine? Perhaps it, on the contrary, would smooth many questions?

- The young state which has so influential foes as at us, demands a specific mode of its restoration. The autonomy was the only possible answer to attempt of rejection of the Crimea from Ukraine of times of "meshkovshchina". Nevertheless the Crimea isn't a certain special region. At us both Donbass, and Zakarpatye, and Lviv - all special. But from my point of view your question means something global - what has to be Ukraine. Monocivilization or all - it is necessary to recognize a country dvutsivilizatsionnost...

- Perhaps tritsivilizatsionny, considering Moslem in the Crimea?

- Can be. I mean that the part of the country lived under the administration of the western empires, and part - under the administration of Russia. And owing to absolutely objective reasons there was a difference in the relation to history, religion, language. The country is very divided. For the politician it is worth - overcoming a question this question by imposing of the model or in this variety to see balance.

- And what option you for yourselves choose?

- The second. But let's decide on terms. What at the time of my statements was the term and sense of federalization? Refusal of submission of the central power. It isn't admissible! I am a supporter of the American approaches. Actually so dynamic USA because their states are more than 50 laboratories of economic development of the country. But there nobody encroaches on the federal political rights. Such, in my opinion, has to be over time and Ukraine. It is necessary to give also to our regions the maximum economic freedom, then parties of astronauts and divers who cry will cease to arise that the center takes away from them a lot of money, and they unfortunate and anything can't do.

- What you recognition of variety of Ukraine and refusal of its unification gets out, means also the solution of a question on Russian status?

- You have problems with Russian?

- Is! Our colleague, for example, in Kiev carries every morning the son by a taxi for 4 km in school because is closer Russian-speaking isn't present.

- And I on foot went 3 km to the Ukrainian school in Exactly. And when I transferred the son from to Kiev, didn't find in the center of the capital of any garden where would speak Ukrainian. They officially, it seems, all Ukrainian, but actually Russian. The problem is and for this purpose, and for other language. It is necessary to recognize that Ukrainian has the status of sick language in Ukraine in force again - not today's problems. It for eyelids was oppressed. On the other hand, there is Russian which is native almost for a population half. And natural almost for all other citizens of Ukraine. And I don't see at this language any problems neither in the press, nor on television, neither in the sphere of an exchange of students, nor in other spheres. Therefore I consider that the state has to support Ukrainian status by all available means. Language has to be restored. It is my position. You can disagree with it.

- You perfectly know that there are restrictions on Russian at cinema, in education, on television. On UT-1 in general synchronies of citizens who speak on - Russian, in news block the Ukrainian translation...

- Synchronies too aren't pleasant to me. As well as that on other channel Ukrainian goes in the Canadian option. But with Russian I don't see problems.Perhaps I don't feel problems, being the ethnic Ukrainian? Debate about it with other ministers.

- Give, Yury Vitalyevich, we will talk about corruption in law-enforcement bodies, in particular, in GAI. When this problem everything is will be solved?

- Never! Anywhere in the world it isn't solved. All question only in its minimization, objective counteraction of corruption. I determined it for myself by a priority. To set unreal tasks - to achieve militia existence without corruption in the country of total corruption, it would be silly. And not only at us … I will tell about a case which witnessed in Paris. Evening. Notr - I Will give. Sit with the wife, we drink coffee. The police car goes. On the right, on forward sitting, the police officer exposed a hand in a window, from little shops Arabs run out and stretch to it for 10 euros. "Salam, fat, fat", - also passes... Corruption exists around the world. All question in its scale. I even so would tell - we have no corruption. After all corruption is as the rust which has covered certain parts of the bearing design. Our design is almost corroded, and the bribery became the rule.

- You said that earlier in GAI there was a corruption system at which subordinate employees shared bribes with the higher. Not so long ago there were messages from Poltava region that the same system works and now...

- We carried out a secret inspection, - the facts weren't confirmed. Moreover, any of signers of the complaint with such surname there doesn't serve. Checked charity foundations, the personal income of the chief of this regional GAI, his subordinates - data on their illegal wealth weren't confirmed.

- But, unfortunately, bribes on roads on - former take. And their size sharply increased in connection with increase in penalties. It is in any way becomes covered by higher ranks or ordinary militiamen at own risk act?

- I consider, corruption level on roads with introduction of video cameras sharply fell. I all - the engineer of electronic equipment. Therefore I consider that the equipment solves everything. There is no contact between the violator and the GAI officer - technical capability for such bribes vanishes. Morally, fiskalno, repressively to influence thousands employees of GAI - occupation ungrateful. Never you will follow all up to the end.The militiaman in the itself representative of the law who is authorized to manage it in private with the criminal. And here always there is a possibility of the corruption decision. What we a salary wouldn't give it, it will never be compared to the sizes of bribes which reach today the astronomical sums - tens, hundred thousands and even million dollars. Certainly, everything solves an internal core of the person. But also the equipment cardinally helps. Therefore I consider that level of corruption in GAI decreased. And internal security hunts which month for corrupt officials in shape on roads, fixes those who behaves in an unseemly way. After introduction in action of the new legislation by the GAI mobile groups and internal security 35 cases of corruption, from them 15 - this year are revealed. I can tell also that bribes are recorded from drivers - the account goes on hundreds and, judging by the sums, it pulls any more on administrative, and on criminal cases.

- 15 cases since the beginning of year! ? Yes our newspaper only in two days found 6...

- And what you found?

- We tried to bribe, and at us it turned out.

- All right, give you will take with itself workers of internal security, and we will put all who did it.

- Excellent idea!

- We such practiced - employees of internal security took with themselves journalists. But there is one nuance. We can check a gashnik on any violation, imitating it, except stay in a state of intoxication at a wheel. GAI officers quickly understood it, and exactly here the greatest number of corruption. We think how to solve and this problem.

- But you recognize existence in militia of total system of corruption about which, actually, all country speaks?

- I would be inveracious before you and readers, claiming that this phenomenon isn't present. But it became less. For last year, as well as always with arrival of my team to the Ministry of Internal Affairs, work of Service of internal security on identification of traitors and werewolves amplified. It was submitted to prosecutor's office for criminal prosecution of 550 cases, even more than 5 thousand are brought to a disciplinary responsibility. I sincerely want that the militia and business existed separately. Also it is still convinced: hand to which took a bribe, honor can't be given.Yes, there were signs of system corruption up to vertical collecting. I speak here, I can tell in church, you want, I will cross - never I had kopeks from GAI and I am not going to have. What I how the minister, has to make to reduce corruption actions of subordinates below? To provide them with gasoline, a form and to minimize contacts of the potential briber and the bribetaker. I also do it.

- But you said that in the budget of this year isn't provided money for gasoline.

- From the state budget, unfortunately, this year, unlike the past, it isn't provided. From militia specialfund, that is our earnings (paid services) I cleaned all articles, including very necessary and gave on gasoline as much, how many last year was provided with the state budget.

- And purchase of "Viziers" on which you lay hopes such in fight against corruption, also will be stopped in connection with the budgetary problems?

- In their last year was 100, now 367. In general planned 1000, but I think while it is enough. If the worker of the device of the prime minister approaches to me in Cabinet of Ministers and says that to her for one journey 7 receipts on speed excess came from Odessa to Kiev, whether that it has to pay everything.

I ask it: you at least once dumped speed? She speaks, no. Well, then all 7... Means, it acts all. And it is correct. It is a good lesson for drivers. Since the beginning of year 177 million penalties are imposed on them, from them 97 million are paid. To toughen demand while there is no need. Other question - that should be put stationary video cameras in all cities. But, unfortunately, the budget doesn't allocate money for these purposes. I hope, reasonable mayors penalties, 50 which % go to local budgets, will direct on means of video fixing of stationary type. And a question not only in breakers of rules of traffic, but also in disclosure of crimes. Without modern system of tracking, on sheer enthusiasm, adequately it is impossible to react to criminals calls.

- By the way, besides, on the closed Ministry of Internal Affairs board you urged militia to participate actively in knocking-out of penalties at drivers and other. Pier, there militia money. So, at least, write.And the Secretariat of the president made the corresponding request …

- It is a striking example of buzz of dead bees of the president who, beating all stereotypes, hoot, and it is regular, and not in a subject. I declare officially - acting employees of militia have no in the salaries, extra charges, periods of service, percent of any kopek from the penalties raised for violations of traffic regulations.

- And plans for penalties for employees of militia are?

- For them too plans aren't present. Actually we see today time falling in three number of protocols on violations. It at all doesn't confuse me. The main thing result - accident rate decreased by 40%. On as much - mortality, traumatism. People really became distsiplinirovanny. The law learns both GAI officers, and drivers. Pedestrians, however, to a lesser extent.

But, I think, all is necessary - to change laws on penalties a little. For example to - to increase the term of payment of penalties without sanctions (doubling): 25 days - are small, considering work of our mail. And still I am the opponent of "fork" in these penalties (deputies promised it to cancel, but it didn't occur) - the penalty has to be fixed. And still it isn't pleasant to me such punishments, as public works. This absolutely surrealistic show which actually is an opening for the mighty of this world and irresponsibility.

- Really you wouldn't like to see at such works, for example, the rival Leonid Chernovetsky?

- I at all wouldn't want to see it anywhere. Question not in the rival. And that this hitrobozhy mayor already lifted up all. Certainly, inhabitants of Kiev made the choice and have to take a bite all its delights. But nevertheless I can accurately declare - all statements of the mayor of Kiev, concerning the diverse illegal requisitions from the population, won't pass. The decisions not registered in Ministry of Justice on collecting on cemeteries, on roads, in hospitals and schools - are illegal. The last instructions concerned data collection about the inhabitants of Kiev having conditioners and satellite antennas - it is visible, it had a desire to monopolize space communication. But joking apart - anything from this won't pass.

- And fare collection for visitors?

- And fare collection, restriction of journey of suburban buses to the central autostations - too. Signed by Yarema the telegram went - to check, whether such illegal requisitions are raised.If yes - immediately to deliver in a site of those who does it. While we see on cemeteries only announcements of a payment, but anybody takes nothing. And I want that people knew: all this is illegal and if someone tries to do it, it is necessary to address in militia.

- We will return to penalties and GAI. We could provide in your order and the facts unsatisfactory a road condition concerning what penalties, as we know, also increased.

- We too conduct this work. Earlier, to the new law, it became, only for road services penalties were scanty. Soon we will begin working off of all territory of the country on existence or lack of signs of traffic, lighting, other technical means of safety. Very much would ask to join both the public, and journalists. We will induce road builders to do that they have to make. And the most important - we will clean signs - traps. That is speed restrictions which unexpectedly appear on the route and automatically do all drivers by violators.

- Or perhaps it was on the contrary necessary to make - at first to clean signs - traps, to repair the roads which state in itself provokes violations, and already then to raise penalties?

- If the driver has no money to pay penalties, let passes into my status. I after all don't drive the car, I go with the driver. And the most important - don't break! Here tell why the Ukrainian drivers, moving frontier and appearing in the territory of Poland, go ideally by rules. I not to time there didn't see the car with our numbers that it went over 60 km/h. Never! It never becomes on the left strip if the right is free. In that case, why we resolved a mess?

- Because at us right all in potholes.

- It is interesting that such drivers, complaining that we have a disorder, coming back, work on an old Soviet joke. There comes to us the driver from Europe, goes on the road. And constantly pole, pole, pole … He with surprise asks: "Here we near everyone have a tag, and at you why such isn't present? " To it in reply: "You when moved, a big red flag saw? And so, it extends on all territory of the country". Here and at us so not only with roads, but also with psychology of drivers.

- You check inspectors, as promised, on existence of pocket money?

- We check.

- And if to ask you, how many at you now with itself in a pocket of money? Last time, when you to us came to edition, you had 200 hryvnias.

- I have now pounds, I yesterday from England. (Takes out notes from a pocket and recalculates). Time, two, three, four, five, six … 145 pounds.

- Conversations go that Ministers of Internal Affairs of the Russian Federation and Georgia, everyone, presented to you expensive watch. In case of the Russian colleague allegedly it is a question of "Bregeta" …

- Actually, it is accepted within meetings between ministers of tradition to give hours. I have hours from the Azerbaijani minister, both Armenian, and Georgian, even from the Kiev mayor - the truth, God Was Merciful, not Chernovetsky. From SBU is, from the Ministry of Defence … These hours have no special value, despite all sensation which is lifted about it by deputies, they rather cheap including the Russian. Usually I wear the watch presented by the wife. I remember that in any newspaper wrote that to the young socialist there are hours of young Swiss brand. But then they broke, and I took the first that came to hand - hours of the Russian minister. It is any not exclusive "Breget". I have by o'clock of the style requirement, not important, valuable them or not. I love hours with the simple dial, with large to figures, without special delicacy, especially gold and brilliants.

- And mobile?

- To mobile the main requirement - that there was a fast Internet. Earlier "Sony" was favourite brand mobile. And now according to the recommendation of the former head of SBU Igor Drizhchany I use here this "Nokia".

- Comment on a situation with monopoly of EDAPS concern for forms of documents for the Ministry of Internal Affairs and a role нардепа Vasily Gritsak from Party of Regions on whom allegedly his members of the same party will organize criminal cases, accusing of work on Tymoshenko?

- Mister Gritsak worked in the Ministry of Internal Affairs till 2004. While we waved with flags on the Maidan, it signed the contract with EDAPS concern. It is the bulletproof long-term contract against which I fought in 2005-06. Unfortunately, all courts lost. In the contract they wrote down not only terms, but also the sums for which the Ministry of Internal Affairs should be bought production.Fortunately, the contract ended. Literally these days there is a reception of price offers on blank and other production, beginning from passports, graduating from GAI.

- And EDAPS has competitors?

- Is. But technical. As far as I know, they have no competitors who have the corresponding permissions of intelligence services to production of such production. Behind all sensation of fighters with EDAPS nobody found time to create legitimate competitors with this concern. And here EDAPS has all - both paper base, and holographic protective elements. And licenses, permissions of SBU and Ministry of Finance. So it is necessary to pay tribute - they systemically approached. Actually, to me all the same from whom to buy. I as could explained it on the National Security and Defense Council and it seemed to me that there people were engaged by other purposes. There was a devastating decision of the National Security and Defense Council - everything to take away from EDAPS and on - new to divide. But while after that decisions changed nothing from the point of view of the competitive environment.

- That is, EDAPS, most likely, will win competition, and Gritsak, it is rather всег, about will support further Tymoshenko's coalition?

- These things aren't connected. After all it delivered production all these years in full love to the Ave. I will repeat - competition will be absolutely transparent.

- And the certificate of a criminal record at issue of passports is surely necessary?

- It is surely necessary if we though a little think of search of the criminal.

- But after all there were decisions of the courts which disprove it.

- While judgment which finally would forbid it, no. There are appeals, there are other things, but for this moment I consider it as necessary system of search of the criminal.

- Tell concerning guns with which you when for the first time became the Interior Minister, awarded the person fifty for participation in Orange revolution including itself … And then, when again headed the Ministry of Internal Affairs, this decision cancelled. Whether many people returned back trunks?

- In - the first, I I didn't award myself. And in - the second, all my actions were lawful. Everything began with that the prosecutor's office protested gun delivery to a certain civilian from giving already nowadays late once my first deputy. Defects eliminated.But on this fact the whole commission was created, there was a sensation … Prize guns are the same type of encouragement, as departmental medals, dirks, prize hours and other. In SBU and sabers hand over the prize. To me as - that, I remember, handed over. And so, anything in it wasn't terrible. It was necessary to find simply an occasion to discharge of Lutsenko's position. Eventually the Supreme Court established that I didn't break the law of Ukraine. Nevertheless, not to tempt our People's Deputies and not to devastate warehouses of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, now I hand over guns to exclusively certified employees of the Ministry of Internal Affairs.

By the way, I have no office gun because I am not the certified employee of the Ministry of Internal Affairs. Though I consider wrong resignation of the minister from such large department as the Ministry of Internal Affairs, without weapon. The former prime minister Masol is protected still by the state, as well as all speakers. And the head of system who punishes hundreds thousands criminals, goes then just like that. … All right, protection it isn't necessary to the minister, simply he needs to give out the weapon for the protection for lifelong term. And the president of the country can hand over me the prize gun only, however didn't hand over. But I have an award weapon from ministers of Moldova and Georgia. But to you I came without weapon.

- You awarded two workers dirks. Why them?

- Yes not two, we the person awarded thirty. Dirks as the award is entered for rewarding of employees of the Ministry of Internal Affairs for the most resonant operations. For example, to emphasize importance of an award for the people who have revealed a bribe in the Crimea at a rate of 5 million dollars, we handed over a dirk. For interception of 2 kg of heroin, disclosure of a network of dealers by people, for bribe identification in 42 million - a dirk. Dirks are white and yellow - as though under silver and gold. Though neither that, nor another there isn't present.

- How there is an investigation of sexual scandal in which Bektursunov and Roman Kislov are involved Kazbek?

- Kislov is arrested, sits in the camera and gives evidences concerning extortion. Bektursunov is in the status of the suspect, but without arrest. Gives evidences, goes on interrogations. Concerning it investigation on corruption juvenile is conducted. That the declared girl refused then the indications, changes nothing, because it not civil, but criminal case. The consequence will establish everything.

- It is known that Kazbek itself addressed in militia concerning blackmail.Then already from militia information leakage that there is a case of corruption juvenile concerning Kazbek went to mass media. If on Bektursunov's place there was a young deputy from "National self-defense", for example mister Aryev, information from the Ministry of Internal Affairs also would "flow away"?

- No leak from the Ministry of Internal Affairs across Bektursunov existed. I can precisely claim. And the press - conferences about consequence pressure started carrying out that mister Bektursunov showed public relations miracles in attempts to rehabilitate itself inappropriate, to me it is surprising. The person accurately knows with what the extortion fact was connected, for what it incurred there money. Yes, there was an attempt to press through prosecutor's office then business was closed. But as far as I was reported by mister Yarema (the head of capital militia. - Edition), he insisted on need of objective investigation. The prosecutor's office understood that astronauts breed not budding therefore business upheld.

- You mentioned a bribe in 42 million. There the mayor Brovarov was involved … And where he now - is arrested?

- Yes, he is arrested and gives evidence to the investigation prosecutor's offices, business at them. As well as not less resonant affairs. There are cases of hundred hectares in the Borispolsky area, given out with violations of the law on false students. There is a case of one hundred hectares the okolostolichnykh of the woods "sawn" by officials of the state administrations again - on students. Simply studgorodok, instead of Kiyevshchina! Though adult uncles come across also - we revealed in the Obukhovsky area illegal, from our point of view, a land allocation for a family of mister Shlapak from the secretariat of the president. Branch was carried out through intervention in a computer database of the land plots of the Obukhovsky region of Kiev region. Doubtful data on registration of seven land plots with a total area of 1,5 hectares were brought.

- We will pass to old resonant affairs. For example, to case of murder of the militia colonel Yerokhin. You well knew it, tried to rescue. Cases on performers went to court, and what on customers?

- Business was taken away from us by prosecutor's office therefore only from the Internet I know that customers aren't established. It very much grieves me.

- And concerning Maxim Kurochkin's murder?

- This business now is in militia. But to us him transferred after long-term investigation. Progress there isn't present so to speak there is nothing.

- What is audible on the infamous Lvov judge Igor Zvarychu? Whether it seems to you, what the Ministry of Internal Affairs missed its escape?

- And the Ministry of Internal Affairs here at what? The SBU and prosecutor's office ran this business, fixed receiving a bribe in especially large sizes. If we detained on a bribe the protected person which vulgarly to be treated, we surely would put protection at a door. Yes for such mistake as its escape, from militia already there would be a criminal case, and so - for SBU and the Ministry of Internal Affairs set the task to find it. There is an operational information, work.

- What the new it is audible on the fluent general Alexey Pukachu?

- We work together with prosecutor's office. There are positive achievements. I can't tell more.

- And on the judge Mikhaylyuk? Even before the official end of investigation you made the courageous statement that it was the suicide …

- No, I didn't make such statement. I told that one of key versions which the consequence, maybe put forward the such. Nevertheless, now there is an examination. Possibilities of ignition of fuel in the closed salon become clear. Judging by some preliminary data, it is impossible. Now suicide version not key.

- And what key?

- Premeditated murder.

- And background, motive?

- There is a number of motives. We studied its professional activity and most of all we pay attention to this direction. Has to tell that it is one of the most professional, very conscientious judges. Besides, he was very God-fearing person. Almost every day I went to church. Therefore to imagine the fact of a suicide extremely difficult. One of versions - to it could revenge.

- Recently you very sharply respond about Victor Yushchenko and his environment. At what moment there was a change in your attitude towards him?

- I have to mister Yushchenko offense, no rage, there is only a regret for the missed chance which drops out both the country, and the politician of times in hundred years. Finally our divergences were created after known conversation which took place before the Kiev elections. Then the help on these elections, but with a condition to enter then the majority with Chernovetsky's block was offered me.I answered "no" with addition of characteristics of mister mayor of the capital. On what I was told the known phrase: "Yura, throw these cops' features. Any who comes to me into an office in a tie, won't sit". And here I understood that all these years, реализуя the belief that it is necessary to fight against corruption irrespective of who what post holds, I was simply used! It deeply revolted me because meant that all fight against corruption was only declarative. In principle, after everything that Baloga made and his head, at first having tried to discredit, slander, put and me, both to Zhvany, and other members of my team, it isn't necessary to speak about any general team. But! I am an acting Interior Minister, Victor Yushchenko - the incumbent president. I am his subordinate. And I am not going to revenge it or to sabotage its orders. I consider that we have to finish this political cycle adequately.

- The militia investigates resonant case on "pyramid" "Kingz Capital". Whether you consider, what - Bandurchenko's number stand behind her director of g arrested nowadays more influential people who were the real authors of swindle and appropriated the raised money?

- Certainly, Bandurchenko acted not one. The main problem - search of misters Golovanov and Kolesnikov, intermediaries between Bandurchenko and unspecified while the person who organized, a cover and, most likely, used results of this huge financial swindle. I can tell that the g - Bandurchenko's N in the first day gave surrender, told that when its business came to serious turns, he was invited by the pastor Sandey Adeladzha and offered financial advisers. As he told supposedly the best in the world. And advisers (mentioned misters) told that to put in real estate (to that Bandurchenko bought up the land plots near Kiev) silly, it is necessary to put in stock exchanges. And since then the huge sums cash went through these intermediaries … Where - it is now established. We look for intermediaries and through the Interpol, and within the country. The example of - on Shakhov - Volkonsky, the former head "Elite - the Center" which caught in Switzerland, shows that such actions on search are very effective. When we will find intermediaries, there will be an opportunity to define the status of - on Adeladzhi - the witness, the suspect accused.Now he is a witness, at it the 10-dnevny term of recognizance not to leave ended, we sent a request to prosecutor's office to define to it the status not eligible to travel abroad that is its competence. We wait for the answer. The g - N of Adeladzha on interrogations goes, there were already 4 times. It doesn't deny that acquainted Bandurchenko with these two people who are wanted. On this case all necessary investigative actions concerning both bank secret, and searches, are carried out.

- Now the set of buildings is frozen, to 70-90 percent of all construction. But something isn't especially audible about other large swindles similar "Elite - the center". What, investors don't address in law enforcement agencies?

- Yes, don't address yet. In most cases or the basic contract provided payment by installments conditions, or additional. I from a TV screen called more than once people in cases of the slightest delay of performance of the contract when it is impossible to find a common language with organizers of building, to address in militia. Judging by that there is no avalanche of such statements, there are only units, such common language is, as a rule, found.

Today we are disturbed more by financial pyramids with participation of the credit unions. Lugansk, Donetsk, Poltava, Kiev … Most largely Odessa region suffered from such swindlers. There from 2,5 million population of 1,5 million invested money in the credit unions. Five largest already burst with initiation of criminal cases and detention of heads, arrest of the remains on accounts. Now our Head investigative department concentrates such affairs at itself because we have a feeling that traces of these pyramids conduct to Kiev. I can't discredit the credit unions as a whole, it is a normal financial component of any civilized state, but would like to appeal to readers "Today" well to think, before in present financial conditions to invest the money in any structure promising more than 10% per annum.

- Yes, but now all Ukrainian banks offer more than 10% per annum on deposits …

- And here in London I read the announcement that bank deposits to the population - 1% per annum. Draw conclusions. My business as the Minister of Internal Affairs, it is simple to warn citizens.

- For what, except road violations, you are going to take penalties and to fill treasury?

- We are going to increase админштрафы not only for violation of traffic regulations.Prepare offers in BP to reconsider them and for other types of violations. For example, for moonshining. Today this penalty - 150 hryvnias that is simply frivolous. It is necessary to increase, probably, and by 10 times. How differently to struggle with alcoholism and household alcoholism? In the village moonshining, in large volumes prospers. And it leads to a significant amount of serious crimes because of alcoholism, including murders. It is necessary to fight against it therefore I support toughening of penalties, first of all moonshine sale. If made for itself - drink, please. But don't accustom to drinking, profiting, others. At today's scanty penalties it frightens nobody and anybody seriously of a problem and isn't engaged.

The same can be told about prostitution. The country in the eyes becomes paradise for sex - tourism. It is especially disgusting that the pedophilia and a child pornography prospers. It is necessary to strengthen fight against it urgently. But the law provides for it from 51 to 255 hryvnias of a penalty - the ridiculous sum.

For hooliganism it is necessary to lift penalties, for small theft. I can't understand at all as it at us in parliament one figure managed to draw a line below which at theft of criminal liability simply doesn't exist. Last year it was to the 772nd hryvnia, in it already 907. Stole a cow - there is no responsibility, a mobilka - too isn't present … Thus an adminotvetstvennost - 150 hryvnias. It turns out, I stole on 900, I paid 150 … Nonsense! Therefore I initiate the law under which there would be a line in 150 hryvnias, not changing constantly. Everything that from above, is subject to criminal liability. Yes, at militia the statistics but to whom the glossy picture is necessary will deteriorate? In the USSR there was no sex, and at us this deputy wants to create Ukraine without pickpockets.

- And you aren't afraid of "drunk" revolts? After all Bogdan Khmelnytsky's revolt was to a great extent provoked by that Poles actively and rigidly fought against moonshining in Ukraine that wasn't pleasant to people …

- Well, I think that Khmelnytsky took offense at that Poles stole the wife from him, instead of that to Ukrainians didn't allow to drink moonshine more … But if it is serious, now a problem of universal alcoholism - one of the most menacing in Ukraine. Let's make comparisons. When we started talking allowing to get the traumatic weapon to all categories of the population, noise was made: the pier, will lead it to increase in crime! I answer: today on hands the population legally has more than 800 thousand trunks.This different weapon - hunting, fighting, traumatic, gas … And every year we give out even more than 50000 permissions to the weapon. It leads to essential increase in crime? Objectively - No. And what leads most often to crimes with firearms use? First of all, alcoholism. But we don't forbid vodka. So also the ban on the weapon, the same traumatic guns, doesn't conduct to decrease in crime.

- And what situation with introduction of the traumatic weapon?

- Guns passed examination - their shots don't bear deadly result. The draft of the resolution prepared by the Ministry of Internal Affairs, passed Ministry of Justice, will be considered on Cabinet of Ministers soon. The right to buy the traumatic weapon will be acquired by those fellow citizens who will pass physical examination, have no criminal record and problems with the law, and also will finish special courses on knowledge of the weapon at local divisions of the Ministry of Internal Affairs.

- You for prostitution legalization? You support your subordinate general Yarema in this question?

- It is a question to legislators. "National self-defense" doesn't initiate such question. In general, there are two questions in which the parliament in any way doesn't want to be engaged. These are bills of cemeterial business (I remember, in Rada nobody wanted to subscribe under it) and about prostitution.

- Whether there are at you data, what the president is interested in that in the gas market there was an intermediary - "Rosukrenergo"?

- In the Ministry of Internal Affairs of such data isn't present. But the intuition of the politician prompts to me that the secretariat of the president is interested in preservation of this intermediary. Why - on this question while I am the acting minister, I can't answer.

- They say that the co-owner of "RUE" of g - N Firtash looked for with you meetings in - on the Russian. Truth?

- Totally ludicrous.

- And Firtash is put by Russians on the international wanted list?

- No. As far as I know, there is an appeal of the Russian law enforcement agencies to court on this matter, but the decision isn't made. When and if it is accepted, we will fulfill the international obligations. That is, if the court of signs puts him on the wanted list and he will be detained out of Ukraine, it to them extradite. If we detain, the court will choose to it a measure of restraint and further the consequence will go under the own steam at us.But let's not be neither it, nor to frighten others of such theories. While the person the full-fledged citizen of our country, against it in the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Ukraine isn't present any criminal case.

- The prime minister Tymoshenko considers gas arrangements with Russia a victory of Ukraine, the president Yushchenko - our full defeat. You, how politician, what opinion?

- Gas war inflicted serious defeat and Ukraine, and Russia. The trust of key international players to both countries was undermined. In conditions which were created by the secretariat of the president of Ukraine, and at, frankly speaking, unreasonable blackmail from the leadership of Russia, the prime minister Yulia Timoshenko made everything that could. To receive the contract without intermediaries and in the price of gas is much lower, than at others, excepting Belarus, from my point of view, there is an adequate exit from the extremely difficult situation. It was impossible to pull out more. It something similar to the Brest world.

- All of you say time that you catch bribe takers at the level of local government - the village, areas, the cities. And whether is in the Ministry of Internal Affairs of business on corruption in on - to the present high echelons of power? For example, among ministers of the government of Tymoshenko or their deputies?

- Real charges to acting ministers or their deputies in the Ministry of Internal Affairs aren't present. The matter is that the basic criminal El Dorado occurs today exactly there, at the average level. If the chairman of the Village Council in 40 km demands from Kiev through the son a bribe for earth allocation in a quarter of one million dollars, it is more, than theoretically is able to afford any deputy minister. And does it systemically … If settlement council in the Crimea demands 5,2 million dollars if the district state administration near Kiev demands 42 million dollars, the Californian gold fever - an easy fever in comparison with the income of our delok. And all this proceeds, despite crisis. We this year detained более400 bribe takers, among them more than one million - the chairman of state district administration in the Nikolaev area, measures in Kharkov, the director of system of the Ukrainian agrarian Academy of Sciences.

I will tell so: "demands" for bribes which pass on our expeditious affairs, as of January 1, made 150 million dollars. We have no problems, as you can see, with results, but there is a problem with the monetary weight necessary for carrying out specialactions - marked notes and so forth. And the doll here doesn't pass, it is necessary to hand over the real money.At the mentioned sums it for us a serious problem especially as the budget doesn't provide any fund on these purposes.

- And where nevertheless you take?

- To you everything tell! We find … This year, except identification of land frauds we put one more priority direction: fight against corruption in the sphere of medical purchases. This corruption leads to that in our rather poor country not only many drugs are 30-40% more expensive, than in the safe countries, but also often are fakes or are made in the countries blacklisted in civilized powers. It is a lot of questions and in the sphere of purchases of iatrotechnics. As well as in case of Goskomzem, we медицинско - a tender mafia will record this, we will show and we will prove to politicians need of change there procedures.

- But after all without support from Ministry of Health this mafia hardly could exist...

- According to my data, the mafia exists irrespective of who is the head of Ministry of Health. There is a narrow circle of the people allowed to these questions and, unfortunately, while it rules a ball in this branch, despite change of blue, orange and any other flowers of politicians - heads. The people entering this circle, not so surely work in Ministry of Health.

- Some non-political questions. What did you present to the wife on St. Valentine's Day?

- Last week we with the wife went for Andreevsky descent - we always go to one workshop - exhibition - and chose the picture which has pleasant to it. And yesterday, having returned from business trip in 12.20 nights, I pictures presented this to it. It is difficult to describe it, it is the female portrait executed in a peculiar modern manner. "Sad tenderness" is called and causes good feelings … Though if it is honest, this holiday seems to me rather far-fetched. Probably, it is women to itself thought up once again to achieve our man's attention. Perhaps on March 8 would be enough? However, how many is opportunities, we will love so many our women!

- What church you treat? To the Moscow patriarchy or to Kiev?

- Me christened in the Resident of Kozelsk of the Chernigov area. By the way, I have both parents from there.And both grandfathers who got acquainted near the Reichstag, - one wrote on the building "Resident of Kozelsk", and other "Hitler" and the uncivilized word (I went to the second grandfather) is farther. Returned back together, children went to one school, then studied in two next higher education institutions. Then went to Dubno the Rovno area, and I was born already in most Exactly. Me christened at the grandmother in the village, without father, certainly (the party worker. - Edition), but with two Godfathers. And in Exactly I had a star father - the colleague of the father on work, the instructor of a city town committee of party. There was such Soviet tradition звездин which tried to interrupt the orthodox. By the way, despite the communistic status, the father at the end of life was the active defender of priests. When in Exactly in 1992 mass opposition of believers, the present archbishop Dnepropetrovsky, and then Rovno was developed, Irenaios spent the night some days at our place.

In general, probably, publicly to speak to incorrectly power minister about preference of faiths … But I can admit: yes, I go to the Most blessed Metropolitan Vladimir. But thus I meet and very much I respect the head Ukrainian Greco - Catholic church, I consider it, as well as the Blessed Vladimir, the great pastor. I am respectful and to the patriarch Philaret. My position is simple: the less policy will interfere with church affairs, the quicker there will come the world. By the way, I consider the Blessed Vladimir as the real Ukrainian in spite of the fact that about it write. And concerning the Holodomor he recognizes that it was the huge tragedy of the Ukrainian people.

By the way, about the Holodomor. According to the decree of the president, all documents on the Holodomor have to be declassified. Their most part is either in SBU, or in Moscow. But remained and at us, in the Ministry of Internal Affairs. In particular, documents on deportation, rasstrelny affairs and on a cannibalism. And I consider, what not everything needs to be published, not everything needs to be declassified. There surnames - those who ate whom I ate and who carried out execution. And after all their relatives and live today. Therefore I would prefer that the decision on declassification was made by parliament taking into account all features of affairs. Yes, we have to know surnames of executioners of "three", for time making the decision on execution of hundreds people, but here surnames of "small screws", too often tragedy victims, can bring trouble to their present great-grandsons.

- And how with documents on unitary enterprise? After all many of them tell about terror of upist in relation to civilians.You don't intend to declassify these documents?

- In - the first, their most part is in Moscow, partially in SBU. In - the second, I don't agree with your unilateral treatment of actions of unitary enterprise. Actually there was the civil war which certain participants committed crimes. But the normal West Ukrainian man who in 1939-41 so was "fallen in love" by the Soviet power, had no other exit, except how to protect the earth, having become guerrillas. All guerrillas - and unitary enterprise, both the Polish Army Craiova, and Soviet - were participants of civil war. And not always the heroic. And all parties should recognize it. And the history will place estimates.

- About current affairs. In the matter of the picture which have disappeared from Odessa of Caravaggio something is audible?

- Only that the stolen picture is recognized as examination real. Concerning customers and performers there are two versions which aren't fulfilled yet.

- Tell some words about the Georgian crime in Ukraine. It is a big problem?

- Notable. Last year 150 groups of the foreign citizens who were engaged in burglaries and robberies on streets were detained. There is no fault the Georgian, Russians - they simply actively squeeze out the преступн


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