The Minister of Transport and communications told about the relations with the prime minister - the minister of Ukraine

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Given last week the head of Ministry of Transport Iosif Vinsky the resignation, according to the minister, gave the chance to it to try to tell the truth about relationship in the government and the policy, pursued the prime minister - the minister Yulia Timoshenko. In interview to correspondents of Kommersant SERGEY GOLOVNEV and ANTON ONUFRIYENKO IOSIF VINSKY told that madam Tymoshenko acts in interests of the large capital, and also about the attitude towards deputies of BYuT and fears for the life.

- It is obvious that you couldn't compete at presidential election the prime minister - to the minister Yulia Timoshenko. How you consider with what the criticism of your activity is actually connected from the prime minister?

- When I came to BYuT, they had a rating of 22%, after our election campaign of 2007 it increased to 30%. That my work added pluses to this political force, - is unambiguous. It is clear that if I decided to stand, it would have an adverse effect on Tymoshenko as we have with her one electoral base. And at presidential election the destiny is decided by any 2-3%. But I am absolutely sober politician - at me never was the purposes to run for president. It is the far-fetched reason.

- Then why madam Tymoshenko began to criticize you?

- Everything began for one reason - it needed to find an occasion to accuse me of corruption. And here time I allegedly want to stand, so on it money is necessary to me. I have to where - that to steal them. The logical chain was so built. But in three days everything abated. People in Yulia Timoshenko's environment are so lazy that didn't work at all normally to prepare a subject.They that, didn't know, how many corruption streams in the ministry I broke? Yulia Vladimirovna showed my acts at meetings of Cabinet of Ministers and sent to the State Office of Public Prosecutor! The first division on internal control and audit in the civil ministry is created at me! And tell, please, if I in a year added 14 billion UAH of profitable base to the public sector enterprises if I from these means paid 40% more money in the budget if we lifted a salary almost by 1,4 times how it matches charge of corruption if I filled the state resources? ! Criticizing me, madam Tymoshenko tries to do selective public relations on a shelmovaniye of the team.

- And from where this sum - 15 million UAH from "Ukrpochta's" means which you allegedly wanted to use in the political goals undertook?

- It is simply invented! It simply nonsense. There is "Ukrpochta's" financial plan. In it always was to 1,5 million UAH on advertizing. This year near people in Cabinet of Ministers wrote down 85 thousand UAH. We gave on the statement of the government of change to the financial plan, having suggested to increase expenses on advertizing to 1 million 750 thousand UAH due to the need of advance of service of sale of tickets through "Ukrpochta's" offices. After all to earn money, advertizing is necessary. And the monthly electronic card can bring in the long term "Ukrpochte" to 2 billion UAH of the income annually!

- You opposed BYuT and Party of Regions coalition...

- In September, 2008 my position played a key role that this coalition didn't take place. I am confident in it. Now, however, in a smaller measure. Because then I was convinced that it won't occur.

- After joint vote of BYuT fractions and Party of Regions in September, 2008 you had a conversation with the prime minister during whom you opposed formation of the new majority in the Verkhovna Rada. What was the argument of the prime minister in favor of creation of such coalition?

- Instead of was any arguments. What here to discuss? Everything is clear to me, and everything is clear to it. I simply told that I won't change and that my position is created long ago. I am absolutely convinced that if this coalition took place, the situation in the country wouldn't be resolved. At these forces different views. Now I also don't divide that occurs in BYuT and Party of Regions relations. "Regionals" were at least more frank, having recognized that conducted negotiations. And representatives of BYuT - as nashkodivshy boys: on the quiet pinch, but don't admit.All country want to part! At meeting of fraction questions not what to do with the country and how to leave crisis, and how it is better to deceive people are discussed. It is level of political culture!

- You consider, what support of large business in the conditions of crisis on what insist both Yulia Timoshenko, and representatives of Party of Regions - incorrect strategy?

- Yulia Timoshenko's paradox that she tells one, and does absolutely another. She always declared that supports small and medium business, and actually creates artificial preferences to large business. I agree what exactly the large local and multinational companies will bring us to Europe. But I categorically against it became to the detriment of public industries. The Cabinet of Ministers took away money from "Ukrzaliznytsi" who and without that had financial problems, and gave them to metallurgists. Thus it gave nothing to the companies - in structure of their expenses transport makes 3-4%, and a discount - 1% (according to producers, 10-15%, a discount - 3-5%. - Ъ). Now the same preferences give to the coal companies. I agree that they need to be supported, but it doesn't mean that "Ukrzaliznytsya" has to carry free of charge two months coal. Today the debt of coal miners to the railroad makes nearly 200 million UAH, and they are obliged to pay off.

- You said that the present director of GP "Ukrzaliznytsya" Mikhail Kostiuk was appointed according to political arrangements. With what?

- It was appointed on a quota of the block of Litvin.

- How it occurred? The prime minister demanded to appoint the specific person?

- Yes. I was told that according to the coalition agreement it is a quota of the block of Litvin, and there is such person (Mikhail Kostiuk. - Ъ). It worked as the deputy general director of "Ukrzaliznytsi". What could I object? The person all life at this enterprise. I told: let goes, works, we will look. My position wasn't prejudiced. If someone recommended it, it isn't so terrible. The main thing as it treats work.

- You declared that after resignation you come back to active policy. That you will do: you will create new political force or you will cooperate with the already existing?

- I don't know. Let me finish this stage of the life if it is possible to finish it without hems on heart and not to repeat Georgy Kirpy's destiny (the Minister of Transport from 2002 to 2004, according to the official version, committed suicide in December, 2004.- Ъ) because the question can stand and so. And then I will be defined. I will finish this subject because this fight concerns destiny of the state and fundamental values. But that I will work at the left flank of a political range, isn't subject to doubt. I am a socialist on belief.

- According to our information, you the other day visited the secretariat of the president where the personnel proposal was made you. What?

- I don't want to speak because I didn't accept it.

- And still someone needs to operate Ministry of Transport. Whom will you recommend on the place?

- I won't begin to set up good people. Now any my recommendation will be used against this person - him precisely don't appoint, and in two days also will direct check of CREWE.

- When you appointed the minister, deputies of BYuT fraction Nikolay Kovzel and Tariel Vasadze applied for this position also. Whether their candidacies now are considered?

- I don't know. I wasn't interested. I will tell only that in due time I offered mister Kovzel and one more deputy of BYuT who actively interfered with management of the ministry, to become my deputies. Both of them refused.

- You as nobody else from Ministers of Transport, in large quantities changed heads of key public industries. Why, after all many of them - skilled managers, besides their dismissals turned back long lawsuits?

- Into my power is included appointment of 262 heads. For last one and a half years I dismissed the person 60, to their work I had claims. I don't deny that I am the rigid head, but the minister and shouldn't fawn upon the subordinates.

- The head of Ilyichevsky port Gennady Skvortsov connected the dismissal with the conflict to Russian "Ukrtranskonteyner". According to him, he tried to meet you, but you refused. The same as now, Yulia Timoshenko refused to meet you.

- For the first time the question of Gennady Skvortsov's dismissal was brought up on board of Ministry of Transport even last summer. Then this question removed at the last minute at the request of the People's Deputy of BYuT fraction Yury Kruk. To mister Skvortsov there were most different claims: contrary to the charter, it without coordination with Ministry of Transport appointed the first deputy of the close relative, CREWE revealed financial violations, and also discrepancy in documents - in port 4 hectares of the earth "disappeared". But Gennady Skvortsov took under protection.At first it appealed against conclusions of CREWE, and then Oleksandr Turchynov (the first vice-the prime minister. - Ъ) I took out a question of cancellation of the order of its dismissal at meeting of Cabinet of Ministers. I insisted on commission creation for check of bases of dismissal. Both CREWE, and the commission of Cabinet of Ministers the facts of violations confirmed. Despite it, mister Skvortsov still holds the position.

- It is the only case of personnel disagreements with Cabinet of Ministers?

- The similar situation was at the Lvov airport: I send the deputy for representation to employees of the acting general director of the enterprise, and the prime minister - the minister cancels representation. Or a situation in "Ukrzaliznytsa": I gave representation on dismissal of the general director Vasily Melnichuk, and he challenged it, and half a year all branch waited, who whom. Unless it not absurdity?

- Whether the truth, what "Ukrtranskonteyner" agreed with Ministry of Transport about tariffs directly?

- It is absurdity. Tariffs are approved by Cabinet of Ministers, I can allow only a discount, but for all the time never used this right. In my opinion, it is necessary to change the principle of tariffing in the transport sphere, increasing trust degree to general directors. About a year ago I submitted the proposal - to establish the income of general directors of the large enterprises of Ministry of Transport (ports, the railroads, the airports, in total about 30) depending on profit of the enterprises in Cabinet of Ministers. Depending on the companies - to 10% of net profit. But these offers didn't apprehend seriously.

- No wonder, it after all the extremely unpopular measure in the opinion of voters.

- But all understand that the director of the Donetsk railroad shouldn't get paid 7-8 thousand UAH a month. If its income was $1 million a year, it would work for result. Voters need to impart understanding of that their welfare for 90% depends on that, how effectively operate the company in which they work. The purpose of work of public industries, as well as the private companies, receiving profit - a difference only that the profit goes to the state budget is. Especially as over all country it is 200-300 managers, whose enterprises give 30-40% of gross domestic product. So state monopolies around the world work - why we have to be an exception?

- Why you insist on cancellation of contracts on joint activity in seaports?

- We analysed working conditions in ports and came to a conclusion that for the state these contracts are unprofitable.Joint activity didn't lead to the profit growth, creation of new workplaces, modernization of the enterprises. On the majority of contracts the accounts department is conducted not state, but by the private companies. Therefore formally the profit in ports isn't present, and the state doesn't gain income.

- But investors made investments in ports, and it will be difficult to break off contracts unilaterally...

- We speak only about a lawful rupture of the relations with investors. We already terminated a half of agreements. For example, the chief of the Kherson port with support of Ministry of Transport was eight months at law with one of oligarchs and won. Problem that in transport branch still nobody was engaged in involvement of investors. And I too wasn't in time is one of my failures. But at the beginning of June the Cabinet of Ministers approved the draft of the provision "About an Order of Attraction of Investments into Transport Branch" brought by me. And we already started preparing documents for involvement of investors on 30 transport objects. However, the document accepted with essential changes, and on coordination more than half a year left.

- How you estimate results of modernization vzletno - landing strips at the airports?

- On condition of timely financing until the end of 2010 all airfields accepting Euro-2012, will be ready. We developed the project in Lviv, at an examination stage - Kharkov. Already made 70% of a strip in Donetsk and by September 1 have to hand over completely is there will be the best strip in the country. We finish works in "Zhulyanakh" - 50 million UAH, and as soon as money will arrive are necessary, in one and a half months the airport will be handed over. There is still a problem of terminals - we or find investors for their construction, or we build temporary terminals worth 15-20 million UAH everyone. Problem that from 760 million UAH which the ministry had to receive on the airports, the Cabinet of Ministers allocated only 20 million UAH

- But even in the presence of financing terms of construction of the terminal D in "Borispol" aren't observed.

- Terms are shifted month on four. Unfortunately, the Dogus company behaves incorrectly. My position firm - or they do in time, or we will replace the contractor.

- How transport infrastructure is ready to carrying out Euro-2012?

- The program - a minimum we will execute. Besides the airports, last year we handed over the road on a site of the first category Kharkov - Dnepropetrovsk and Fords - Stry. Now we work over a site Fords - Zhitomir.The issue of attraction of financial resources on Lubna - Borispol was resolved. This year we will finish the route #02 the message Kiev - Moscow and #07 Kiev - Sarna.

On "Ukrzaliznytsa" situation more difficult. There it is necessary to update considerably ways and carriage park. We can't carry the people who have arrived for Euro-2012, in cars, which for 40 years. Really to do in a year on 200 new cars: in 2008 made record 170 - at Kryukovsky car-building plant, they already actually created new shop. We need to achieve, at least, that the quantity of new cars compensated quantity of the written off.

- Why then the ministry initiated not production of buses, and their purchase abroad?

- There are buses of a different class. The domestic brands "Bogdan" and "Standard" are buses on 20 places. The European football fans will go with pleasure hardly on such from Kiev to Dnepropetrovsk. Big buses are necessary. Besides, it is important who will buy these buses. Carriers are ready to buy foreign buses for the means if we lower duties on their import - now in Ukraine Mercedes buses 40% more expensive, than in Germany.

- How the issue of restructuring of debt of the public industries subordinated to Ministry of Transport is now resolved?

- Hard. Our predecessors took the serious credits. Then they were cheap, and easily got. Ukravtodor signed the contract which allowed the creditor to demand repayment of the loan at any time. Therefore in the fall we in a panic closed these credits instead of on this money to construct roads. "Укрзализныця" already I extinguished the credit of $550 million before Barclays, until the end of the year still it is necessary to give 4 billion UAH, and to be loaned up there is nobody. We convince National Bank and other banks to solve this problem. Ideal option - to find bank which becomes the strategic partner of the enterprise. We carried out a series of negotiations on this question. But in all banks told: at first reform the company - then there will be a credit.

- What privileges received transport enterprises from the state during crisis?

- Condition of branch - satisfactory. At least, it is better, than in it is mountain - a metallurgical complex, mechanical engineering, chemistry, the coal industry and an energy drink. There is a certain recession in the sphere of a cargo transportation - about 32-35%.Slightly, except for air transportation (-20%), the situation with passenger traffic worsened, but also there now there is a revival.

- You considered a question of decrease in airport collecting for airlines. They will be lowered?

- I am not the supporter of decrease in tariffs. It is artificial support of business: we reduce a tariff for airline - the airport falls. We have today the lowest transport tariffs in comparison with neighboring countries. We aren't able to afford to subsidize the company as it is done by Russia having a serious financial reserve. Here choice question: to pay salaries and pensions or to give money to business. I think, in business strong people work. Let will prove to be in hard times - will work, will look for money.


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